» Those two extra pedals

[jhnbrbr]

As we all know, "full" pedalboards come in two varieties: 30 note and 32 note. But do any organ compositions actually use the two extra pedals? As far as I can remember, I've never come across one, but my repertoire is admittedly very limited. So my challenge question to all organ "anoraks" is this: name a piece of organ music which can only be played with a 32 note pedalboard.

[Mat]

Originally Posted by jhnbrbr

As we all know, "full" pedalboards come in two varieties: 30 note and 32 note.

I didn't know that...

[Bagnew]

I have come across a few pieces which go up to the High G, yes.

[Krummhorn]

I'll name you three

1)G. Homilius, Durch Adams Fall. In the final passage, the high F# is used.

2) The final pedal glissando of Joseph Jongen Symphonie Concertante for Organ and Orchestra, from the top G down to the lowest C

3) The pedal cadenza of Variations de Concert, by Joseph Bonnet, employs playing the highest notes of the pedalboard as well playing chords with the feet.

[jhnbrbr]

Thanks Kh! I'm suitably impressed

[dll927]

For those who "didn't know" it, Cavaille-Coll organs had 30-note pedal boards and 56-note manuals. This was common in Europe at the time. Also, the pedal boards were flat and non-radiating.

IN the U. S., we are used to the AGO standard dimensions, and they can be looked up and are quite detailed. But that doesn't mean they are "standard" everywhere.

The five-octave manuals seem to have become pretty much the rule nearly everywhere now, but figure up how many more pipes that means, depending on the number of ranks an instrument has available.

[Contratrombone64]

I mean, afterall, 32 note pedal boards and cruel. My right leg's just not as flexible as it once was ...

[Krummhorn]

Mine neither, David. I pivot my torso on the bench in either direction so that the stretch to the upper and lower extremities of the pedalboard was easier. I think that was either the "Gleason" method or something my organ teacher taught me.

I've only played one non-radiating pedalboard, and that was in Austria. It was difficult to play at first, but after a half hour at the console, it became easier.

St. Peter's in Rome, on the other hand, has a radiating pedalboard, but it was different compared to what I was used to playing here in the US.

[jhnbrbr]

Strictly speaking, we need 33 note pedalboards with an extra note at the bottom for that one stray note in Bach's Fantasia in G. It has to be played an octave higher, of course, but I once attended an organ recital by Andrew Fletcher where he got his assistant to draw a 32 foot pedal stop just for that one note - now that's what I call attention to detail!

[Contratrombone64]

Anal retentive more likely, but I kind of agree, it would irk me not to be able to pla the music exactly as written.

[dll927]

Did Bach's organ have that 'extra' note? Why would he write it that way? Could it have been a publisher's error? Playing it "as written" is one thing, but could it have been a mistake to begin with? Does it fit in?

[mathetes1963]

It seems to me that the French organ builders in the 18th c. (Clicquot, Dom Bedos, Isnard, et al) employed something called a "ravelment" (sp?), or extension of the bass compass so that when playing the bottom end of 16' octave you get the top end of the 32'. On instruments like the Clicquot @ Poitiers or the Dom Bedos @ Bordeux I've heard on recordings, the 16' ranks seems deeper than an actual 16'. This ring a bell with anyone?

[dll927]

The answer to that question probably is that anything is possible, and organ builders do have their different approaches to things. Going that far back, they didn't have pistons and other niceties to make quick changes. And remember, most of those older organs were played with "registrants" standing at the sides to manipulate the stops. You couldn't see anybody up there, anyway, at least if the Positif was in the way.

[astazou]

Originally Posted by mathetes1963

something called a "ravelment" (sp?)

ravalement.
That was an extension (as in: add keys) of the pedalboard compass downwards.

Ravalement en A => expanded to A0
Ravalement en F => expanded to F0 (12 ')

Usually, the ravalement was applied only to the reed stops (Trompette, Clairon, Bombarde)

[mathetes1963]

Originally Posted by astazou

ravalement.
That was an extension (as in: add keys) of the pedalboard compass downwards.

Ravalement en A => expanded to A0
Ravalement en F => expanded to F0 (12 ')

Usually, the ravalement was applied only to the reed stops (Trompette, Clairon, Bombarde)

Ah, that explains what I saw...thanks, Astazou!