italian organs?

[smilingvox]

Anybody here who would like to share about Italian organs?

The other night, I listened to a CD of the 1862 De Simoni-Carerra at San Giovanni in Bellagio, Italy.

It's a complete 2-manual and includes a 16' Bombardo and 8' Tromba in the Pedal. The Principale, together with the Voce Umana, coupled to three, or four, 8' flutes, produce a very heavenly, yet slightly haunting, singing tone. I'd have to say that this is one of my favorite Italian organs.

It's on the Dabringhaus und Grimm label. I want to find another CD of this organ!

[Corno Dolce]

Imho the Italian instruments have a unique voicing paradigm, insofar as the older instruments are concerned. Many of the well-known instruments have adopted a more North Germanic/European style that, imo, strays far from the original tonal concept i.e. soft voicing of principal choruses, mixtures, and reeds. Afaik, the organ in Italy was more or less an instrument for background accompaniment of the choir, never an instrument that could mask the choir. As has been pointed out, the Principal 8 + Voce Umana 8 + Flute(s) 8 gives a most satisfyingly unique timbre for accompanying a solo voice or choir.

The older instruments have definitely more charm. Can the classical Italian organ be developed to encompass other traditions without betraying its own heritage? So far, I have only seen the grafting of other organ building traditions onto the historical Italian organ tradition. Is this the way forward? Or do we get *museum piece* organs like those in the Netherlands? This my statement shall not in any way be construed as a slight towards Italian or Dutch organs. If one plays the appropriate repertoire for these organs, they will sing and bloom as beautifully as any other organ.

My $0.03 cents worth.............

[smilingvox]

Thanks, Corno.

Oh, I did find another recording of that organ I mentioned above. Works of Zipoli (forgot the label).

I'm now searching for a glossary of organbuilding terms in Italian. Anybody have any leads?

[Ghekorg7]

Italian organs ? Yes, br.CD and Smilly. I'll tell you a story.

September 1988, Venezia. I was strolling around all day in my beloved city, when I made a stop for a double espresso in a cozy cafe over the sea at Zattere, near Salute. I heard two men talkin' about a certain Organ festival inside Santa Maria de la Salute and I couldn't help but asking them. They were members of Ars Organi di Venezia, a research center for culture and organ music. I only had time for one performance to listen before I leave and I'll never forget it.

Martedi 20 Settembre 1988. Ore 21.00, basilica "Madona Della Salute"
Organo di F.Dacci j. 1782
Performance : Manfred Brandstetter (b.1929)
The organ:
Modified by G.Bazzani and restored by A.Piccinelli, Two man/ped
Organo Grosso :
Principale bassi 8'
Principale soprani 8'
Ottava bassi e soprani 4'
Decimaquinta 2'
Decimanona 1,1/3'
Vigesimaseconda 1'
Vigesimasesta 2/3'
Vigesimanona 1/2'
Trigesimaterza 1/3'
Trigesimasesta 1/4'
Contrabassi (Pedale) 16'
Ottava di contrabassi 8'
Duodesima di contrabassi 5,1/3'
Voce Umana 8'
Flauto bassi e soprani 4'
Tronbe bassi e soprani 8'
Flauto in XII soprani 2,2/3'
Flauto in XV soprani 2'
Cornetta soprani 1,2/5'
Trombe reali (pedale) 8'
Melodium (2nd manual) :
Voce Umana 8'
Principale 8'
Corno Inglese 16'
Flauto in ottava 4'
Accessori :
Ripieno a maniglia
Terza mano a manubrio

Music Performed :
N. De Grigny - G. Muffat - G.Bohm - D.Buxtehude - J.S.Bach......

Dr. Manfred performed with mystical inner vision, an incredible sound coming from all over the walls of Santa Maria, Her Byzantine Icon looking at us with a mystic connection, knowing that we understand the meaning of all this gathering....

A year later I came back and beged to touch the tastiere...anyway the priest make me a big favour and let me play for...10 minutes before the other people came.
The Italian principale is so smooth and sweet, put some flauti XII/XV and a little voce umana and it lifts you where you belong.

I hope I did something to satisfy your Italian quest...

Panos

[Corno Dolce]

Blessed Br. Panos,

Thanx for such an exquisite review of a sweet instrument - I would have loved to have been there.

Cheers,

CD

[Ghekorg7]

That would be nice br.CD,
There were other fine organs in this festval, but I didn't listen to them, sadly
a. The organ at S.Maria del Rosario vuigo - single manual 1858 and
b. The organ at S.Nicolo dei Mendicoli, one manual, an antique of the Venetian school
I have some details of their registrations too.

Panos

[wljmrbill]

Here is video of an 1888 Italian organ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpWH-WQAAL0

A 1750 Italian organ.. Located in the states.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK5teJPCh7M

[Ntalikeris666]

Listen also to that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Putpr...u6BkkmA&fmt=18

Cheers
Nick

[Ntalikeris666]

And by the way here is this organ's Stoplist:

Primo ogano (Great)
Principale Bassi 12'
Principale Soprani 12'
Ottava
XV
XIX
XXII
XXVI
XXIX
XXXIII
XXXVI
Voce umana (Soprani)
Flauto in VIII Bassi
Flauto in VIII Soprani
Flauto in XII
Cornetta (=Flauto in XVII Soprani)
Violetta Bassi 6'
Violetta Soprani
Tromboncini Bassi 8'
Tromboncini Soprani

Pedaliera (Pedal)
Contrabassi 16'
Ottava di Contrabassi 8'
Ottava di Contrabassi 4'
Tromboni 8'

Secondo organo (Second organ)
Principale Bassi 8'
Principale Soprani 8'
Ottava Bassi
Ottava Soprani
XV
XIX
XXII
Voce umana
Flauto in VIII Bassi
Flauto in VIII Soprani

Flauto in XII
Cornetta (=Flauto in XVII Soprani)
Tromboncini Bassi 8'
Tromboncini Soprani
Violoncello Bassi 8'
Violoncello Soprani

Temperament: Mean Tone

[Ghekorg7]

Listen also to that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Putpr...u6BkkmA&fmt=18

Cheers
Nick

Hey Nick, good to have you back !
I hope you went ok with your exams.

We missed your assistance here, there are many threads needing your posts.

I enjoyed the link, only I wish it was a video of this guy with the coat sitting in the console

What a great Italian ! 5 manual and BIG sound and very much thanks for the registrations !

Cheers
Panos

[wljmrbill]

enjoyed the performance Ntalikeris666. Great soundng Italian Organ.

[Ntalikeris666]

Hey Nick, good to have you back !
I hope you went ok with your exams.

We missed your assistance here, there are many threads needing your posts.

I enjoyed the link, only I wish it was a video of this guy with the coat sitting in the console

What a great Italian ! 5 manual and BIG sound and very much thanks for the registrations !

Cheers
Panos

Hehe!

Thanks a lot for your comments ;-)
The exams are almost finished so now, i have some time to relax, and of course post new stuff here :P

Yea, indeed it would have been nice to see a video of him playing.
Though if you check the Channel of the user who uploaded this and many many other great music videos, you might at least find more performances of this guy.

Cheers,
Nick

[Ntalikeris666]

enjoyed the performance Ntalikeris666. Great soundng Italian Organ.

My pleasure ;-)

[Organ Matters]

Hi!

One of the most perfect organs in Venice is in St Giorgio Maggiore - the Palladian monastery across the water from St Marks.

The violoncello stop - often a soft reed.

There's also a recently restored but poorly maintained instrument right up in the north east corner of the city - I forget the name - but very beautiful and interesting.

Yes - Italian tradition is neglected.

Best wishes

David P

[Ghekorg7]

Hi!

One of the most perfect organs in Venice is in St Giorgio Maggiore - the Palladian monastery across the water from St Marks.

The violoncello stop - often a soft reed.

There's also a recently restored but poorly maintained instrument right up in the north east corner of the city - I forget the name - but very beautiful and interesting.

Yes - Italian tradition is neglected.

Best wishes

David P

Thanks for the info OM !
I've been in St.Giorgio M. many times but I missed the Palladian !
The NE and NW of Venice is less turist populated and one can find a little tresures in there. I;ll see what I can find.

Cheers
Panos