Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: italian organs?

  1. #1
    Commander, Assistant Conductor
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    157
    Post Thanks / Like

    italian organs?

    Anybody here who would like to share about Italian organs?

    The other night, I listened to a CD of the 1862 De Simoni-Carerra at San Giovanni in Bellagio, Italy.

    It's a complete 2-manual and includes a 16' Bombardo and 8' Tromba in the Pedal. The Principale, together with the Voce Umana, coupled to three, or four, 8' flutes, produce a very heavenly, yet slightly haunting, singing tone. I'd have to say that this is one of my favorite Italian organs.

    It's on the Dabringhaus und Grimm label. I want to find another CD of this organ!

  2. #2
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    10,538
    Post Thanks / Like
    Imho the Italian instruments have a unique voicing paradigm, insofar as the older instruments are concerned. Many of the well-known instruments have adopted a more North Germanic/European style that, imo, strays far from the original tonal concept i.e. soft voicing of principal choruses, mixtures, and reeds. Afaik, the organ in Italy was more or less an instrument for background accompaniment of the choir, never an instrument that could mask the choir. As has been pointed out, the Principal 8 + Voce Umana 8 + Flute(s) 8 gives a most satisfyingly unique timbre for accompanying a solo voice or choir.

    The older instruments have definitely more charm. Can the classical Italian organ be developed to encompass other traditions without betraying its own heritage? So far, I have only seen the grafting of other organ building traditions onto the historical Italian organ tradition. Is this the way forward? Or do we get *museum piece* organs like those in the Netherlands? This my statement shall not in any way be construed as a slight towards Italian or Dutch organs. If one plays the appropriate repertoire for these organs, they will sing and bloom as beautifully as any other organ.

    My $0.03 cents worth.............
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  3. #3
    Commander, Assistant Conductor
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    157
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks, Corno.

    Oh, I did find another recording of that organ I mentioned above. Works of Zipoli (forgot the label).

    I'm now searching for a glossary of organbuilding terms in Italian. Anybody have any leads?

  4. #4
    Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret) Ghekorg7 (Ret)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    1,098
    Post Thanks / Like

    ARS ORGANI di VENECIA

    Italian organs ? Yes, br.CD and Smilly. I'll tell you a story.

    September 1988, Venezia. I was strolling around all day in my beloved city, when I made a stop for a double espresso in a cozy cafe over the sea at Zattere, near Salute. I heard two men talkin' about a certain Organ festival inside Santa Maria de la Salute and I couldn't help but asking them. They were members of Ars Organi di Venezia, a research center for culture and organ music. I only had time for one performance to listen before I leave and I'll never forget it.

    Martedi 20 Settembre 1988. Ore 21.00, basilica "Madona Della Salute"
    Organo di F.Dacci j. 1782
    Performance : Manfred Brandstetter (b.1929)
    The organ:
    Modified by G.Bazzani and restored by A.Piccinelli, Two man/ped
    Organo Grosso :
    Principale bassi 8'
    Principale soprani 8'
    Ottava bassi e soprani 4'
    Decimaquinta 2'
    Decimanona 1,1/3'
    Vigesimaseconda 1'
    Vigesimasesta 2/3'
    Vigesimanona 1/2'
    Trigesimaterza 1/3'
    Trigesimasesta 1/4'
    Contrabassi (Pedale) 16'
    Ottava di contrabassi 8'
    Duodesima di contrabassi 5,1/3'
    Voce Umana 8'
    Flauto bassi e soprani 4'
    Tronbe bassi e soprani 8'
    Flauto in XII soprani 2,2/3'
    Flauto in XV soprani 2'
    Cornetta soprani 1,2/5'
    Trombe reali (pedale) 8'
    Melodium (2nd manual) :
    Voce Umana 8'
    Principale 8'
    Corno Inglese 16'
    Flauto in ottava 4'
    Accessori :
    Ripieno a maniglia
    Terza mano a manubrio

    Music Performed :
    N. De Grigny - G. Muffat - G.Bohm - D.Buxtehude - J.S.Bach......

    Dr. Manfred performed with mystical inner vision, an incredible sound coming from all over the walls of Santa Maria, Her Byzantine Icon looking at us with a mystic connection, knowing that we understand the meaning of all this gathering....

    A year later I came back and beged to touch the tastiere...anyway the priest make me a big favour and let me play for...10 minutes before the other people came.
    The Italian principale is so smooth and sweet, put some flauti XII/XV and a little voce umana and it lifts you where you belong.

    I hope I did something to satisfy your Italian quest...

    Panos
    Last edited by Ghekorg7 (Ret); Apr-16-2010 at 05:32.

  5. #5
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    10,538
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blessed Br. Panos,

    Thanx for such an exquisite review of a sweet instrument - I would have loved to have been there.

    Cheers,

    CD
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  6. #6
    Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret) Ghekorg7 (Ret)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    1,098
    Post Thanks / Like
    That would be nice br.CD,
    There were other fine organs in this festval, but I didn't listen to them, sadly
    a. The organ at S.Maria del Rosario vuigo - single manual 1858 and
    b. The organ at S.Nicolo dei Mendicoli, one manual, an antique of the Venetian school
    I have some details of their registrations too.

    Panos

  7. #7
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso wljmrbill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Taylors, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    3,070
    Post Thanks / Like
    Here is video of an 1888 Italian organ.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpWH-WQAAL0

    A 1750 Italian organ.. Located in the states.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK5teJPCh7M
    Last edited by wljmrbill; Apr-16-2010 at 06:16.
    ....To play only what is written is the domain of science. To realize what is not written is the domain of art."
    - Jean Langlais

    I wish you the Best for each day, now and always.

    Bill

  8. #8
    Commander, Assistant Conductor Ntalikeris666's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    219
    Post Thanks / Like

  9. #9
    Commander, Assistant Conductor Ntalikeris666's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    219
    Post Thanks / Like
    And by the way here is this organ's Stoplist:

    Primo ogano (Great)
    Principale Bassi 12'
    Principale Soprani 12'
    Ottava
    XV
    XIX
    XXII
    XXVI
    XXIX
    XXXIII
    XXXVI
    Voce umana (Soprani)
    Flauto in VIII Bassi
    Flauto in VIII Soprani
    Flauto in XII
    Cornetta (=Flauto in XVII Soprani)
    Violetta Bassi 6'
    Violetta Soprani
    Tromboncini Bassi 8'
    Tromboncini Soprani

    Pedaliera (Pedal)
    Contrabassi 16'
    Ottava di Contrabassi 8'
    Ottava di Contrabassi 4'
    Tromboni 8'

    Secondo organo (Second organ)
    Principale Bassi 8'
    Principale Soprani 8'
    Ottava Bassi
    Ottava Soprani
    XV
    XIX
    XXII
    Voce umana
    Flauto in VIII Bassi
    Flauto in VIII Soprani

    Flauto in XII
    Cornetta (=Flauto in XVII Soprani)
    Tromboncini Bassi 8'
    Tromboncini Soprani
    Violoncello Bassi 8'
    Violoncello Soprani

    Temperament: Mean Tone

  10. #10
    Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret) Ghekorg7 (Ret)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    1,098
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Ntalikeris666 View Post
    Hey Nick, good to have you back !
    I hope you went ok with your exams.

    We missed your assistance here, there are many threads needing your posts.

    I enjoyed the link, only I wish it was a video of this guy with the coat sitting in the console

    What a great Italian ! 5 manual and BIG sound and very much thanks for the registrations !

    Cheers
    Panos

  11. #11
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso wljmrbill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Taylors, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    3,070
    Post Thanks / Like
    enjoyed the performance Ntalikeris666. Great soundng Italian Organ.
    ....To play only what is written is the domain of science. To realize what is not written is the domain of art."
    - Jean Langlais

    I wish you the Best for each day, now and always.

    Bill

  12. #12
    Commander, Assistant Conductor Ntalikeris666's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    219
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghekorg7 View Post
    Hey Nick, good to have you back !
    I hope you went ok with your exams.

    We missed your assistance here, there are many threads needing your posts.

    I enjoyed the link, only I wish it was a video of this guy with the coat sitting in the console

    What a great Italian ! 5 manual and BIG sound and very much thanks for the registrations !

    Cheers
    Panos
    Hehe!

    Thanks a lot for your comments ;-)
    The exams are almost finished so now, i have some time to relax, and of course post new stuff here :P

    Yea, indeed it would have been nice to see a video of him playing.
    Though if you check the Channel of the user who uploaded this and many many other great music videos, you might at least find more performances of this guy.

    Cheers,
    Nick

  13. #13
    Commander, Assistant Conductor Ntalikeris666's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    219
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by wljmrbill View Post
    enjoyed the performance Ntalikeris666. Great soundng Italian Organ.
    My pleasure ;-)

  14. #14
    Midshipman, Forte
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Sussex, England
    Posts
    27
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hi!

    One of the most perfect organs in Venice is in St Giorgio Maggiore - the Palladian monastery across the water from St Marks.

    The violoncello stop - often a soft reed.

    There's also a recently restored but poorly maintained instrument right up in the north east corner of the city - I forget the name - but very beautiful and interesting.

    Yes - Italian tradition is neglected.

    Best wishes

    David P

  15. #15
    Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret) Ghekorg7 (Ret)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    1,098
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Organ Matters View Post
    Hi!

    One of the most perfect organs in Venice is in St Giorgio Maggiore - the Palladian monastery across the water from St Marks.

    The violoncello stop - often a soft reed.

    There's also a recently restored but poorly maintained instrument right up in the north east corner of the city - I forget the name - but very beautiful and interesting.

    Yes - Italian tradition is neglected.

    Best wishes

    David P

    Thanks for the info OM !
    I've been in St.Giorgio M. many times but I missed the Palladian !
    The NE and NW of Venice is less turist populated and one can find a little tresures in there. I;ll see what I can find.

    Cheers
    Panos

Similar Threads

  1. physis organs website
    By tegshee in forum Electronic/Digital Organs
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: May-10-2016, 14:56
  2. Street Organs from different places
    By wljmrbill in forum Pipe Organ Forum
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Mar-26-2010, 00:32
  3. Pipe Organs in India.
    By tittualex in forum Pipe Organ Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Nov-18-2008, 22:34
  4. PFM, the legendary Italian prog rock band, in concert in Canada
    By progfun4ever in forum Progressive Rock Music Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Oct-07-2008, 04:34
  5. Danish Organs - thoughts?
    By Simon Jansfort in forum Pipe Organ Forum
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Feb-24-2007, 09:54

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •