hardbop dream band

[hardbop grandpop]

i love hardbop,could listen to it all day,and i have done so often.here is my hardbop dream band, clifford brown-dexter gordon-oscar peterson-dave holland-elvin jones. can any of you guys or gals do better than this?the hardbop grandpop.

[Corno Dolce]

Well,

The Jazz Trio is very much my thing so a *Dream Trio* would be McCoy Tyner, Ron Carter, and Jack DeJohnette.

[gord]

hi steve, this is an old thread of mine(i used to be hardbop grandpop).my choices have changed since last year, they now are. lee morgan,dexter gordon,thelonious monk,charles mingus and art blakey. there is a lot of your influence here now. i would like to see your choice of hardbop dream band. gord

[White Knight]

Hi Gord. That is quite a compliment indeed; it is really flattering to think I could influence anyone especially someone such as yourself who plainly has such a knowledge of and experience with this music. Thank you again.
As I seem to be very partial to sextets, I would--in a pinch--love to hear a group composed of: Wayne Shorter--tenor sax
Mccoy Tyner--piano
Lee Morgan--trumpet
Billy Higgins--drums
Steve Davis--bass
Curtis Fuller--trombone
This would be but one incarnation of what I would deem my "hardbop dream band'. Given enough time, I could think of many more I'd love to hear playing together as a unit.

[OLDUDE]

Sorry guys,
Hard bop is just not my thing

[White Knight]

Olddude, I'm sorry to learn that you don't like bebop; you're really missing out on--and depriving yourself--of some wonderful music created by great musicians.

[escher]

hard bop, let's see:

sax: booker ervin
trumpet: clifford brown
piano: horace silver
bass: paul chambers
drums: philly joe jones

but i'd much prefer a post bop variation with an extended group:

sax: wayne shorter
trumpet: booker little
piano: andrew hill
bass: charles mingus
dolphy: bass clarinet
vibes: bobby hutcherson
guitar: lenny breau
drums: billy higgins (or tony williams)

[gord]

hi john, there was a time many years ago now, when i didnt like hardbop. then someone gave me a copy of cannonball adderleys-something else on blue note. the powerfull swing from hank jones, sam jones and art blakey and the creativity of adderley and miles davis sold me immediately. on you tube there is autumn leaves from this album, take a listen, i am sure you will enjoy. gord

[gord]

thats one great hardbop group escher,almost as good as mine. gord

[John Watt]

Wow! I just don't see McCoy Tyner and Lenny Breau as being bop or hard bop.

It's easy to see Miles Davis as bop, but typing his name after the birth of the cool,
and his forays into fusion with Bitches Brew, means he's not just be-bop any more.

Even though I'm a guitarist, talking this kind of jazz, I'd want Charlie Christian or Barney Kessel.
One horn comes first, Louis Armstrong.

[escher]

Wow! I just don't see McCoy Tyner and Lenny Breau as being bop or hard bop.

in that strange category called post-bop they could be placed absolutely well. It's clear they are not bebop musicians nor simply hard bop. And Louis Armstrong called bop "chinese music", he didn't like it at all

[John Watt]

I'll never forget watching t.v. with my parents one night in the sixties, wanting to see Louis Armstrong.
He was a guest with Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra, with a female vocalist,
and they were doing their usual shtick, Louis being gracious and elegant.
When they were getting onto him to start playing,
he just let loose a riff that started off badly and kept getting out of tune the lower he got,
making everyone around him stop and stare at him, astounded,
and then he smiled and got into the tune with his offstage band, sounding hot.
Only Stevie Wonder, putting Whitney Houston in her place, has provided a similar moment of television wonder.

If Louis Armstrong was down on bop, I can dig it, seeing that he's so melodic and his orchestra romantic,
while bop delineated instrument sections into less tonal ranges, good for arrangers, but less scalar in octaves,
what could be described as sounding Chinese, five notes per octave, I think. Or is that Japan? India has 32, sometimes.

I think of Elvin Jones as a polyrhythmic drummer. His first solo album, Agape Love, is one of my favorites.
A friend of mine who saw him still talks about Elvin Jones stepping on his coat as he made his way to the stage.
Like Jimi Hendrix sang, sometimes a depressed, crippled and unspeaking person can jump up and say,
"Look.. a golden winged ship is coming my way, and it didn't have to stop... it just kept on going,
and so castles made of sand slip into the sea, eventually...."

Now I'm thinking the middle of Beethovens' Fifth, what for me is a rainstorm, is a bop precursor.

[escher]

Now I'm thinking the middle of Beethovens' Fifth, what for me is a rainstorm, is a bop precursor.

why? I'm curious, i remember that the piano sonata n.32 has a syncopated part that reminds jazz rhythm, but where you see jazz in the fifth symphony?

[John Watt]

Too bad I can't even begin to describe the orchestration...
but movements get tumultuous, some movements sounding like rain and distant thunder,
sounding sectional, like a big band swing band.
Frank Chacksfields' recording of "Victory at Sea",
and John Coltrane, with "After the Rain",
are the only other recordings that help me envision a watery scenario,
and a victorious one at that.

If a full symphony was sitting onstage, and someone said "let's jam in A minor",
how long would it take before this group found themselves, musically?

[OLDUDE]

Hi guys,
Sorry but I am just catching up with this thread after my profound comment on 24th feb.
It seems to me that there are considerable differences of opinion on what is (hard) bop or not. For me it was all based on the 50's and Charlie Parker/Dizzy G.
People may be horrified to learn that I didnt have much time for C.P. at that time
although in retrospect his version of "Lover" when he was stoned out of his mind is
a true classic.
Despite his "Birth of the Cool" aspect I dont really rate Miles as a "Bopper" - he made too much good music for that.
Many greats of the time got drawn into "bop" including Stan Getz and Coleman Hawkins bu I dont really think that the phase lasted too long.
Then the likes of Coltrane came along and such music lost all of its interest for me.
Fortunately post bop (true) jazz revivals also came along to resurrect my interest.

Cheers John