hardbop dream band

hardbop grandpop

New member
i love hardbop,could listen to it all day,and i have done so often.here is my hardbop dream band, clifford brown-dexter gordon-oscar peterson-dave holland-elvin jones. can any of you guys or gals do better than this?the hardbop grandpop.:cool:
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Well,

The Jazz Trio is very much my thing so a *Dream Trio* would be McCoy Tyner, Ron Carter, and Jack DeJohnette.
 

gord

New member
hi steve, this is an old thread of mine(i used to be hardbop grandpop).my choices have changed since last year, they now are. lee morgan,dexter gordon,thelonious monk,charles mingus and art blakey. there is a lot of your influence here now. i would like to see your choice of hardbop dream band. gord:cool:
 

White Knight

Spectral Warrior con passion
Hi Gord. That is quite a compliment indeed; it is really flattering to think I could influence anyone especially someone such as yourself who plainly has such a knowledge of and experience with this music. Thank you again.
As I seem to be very partial to sextets, I would--in a pinch--love to hear a group composed of: Wayne Shorter--tenor sax
Mccoy Tyner--piano
Lee Morgan--trumpet
Billy Higgins--drums
Steve Davis--bass
Curtis Fuller--trombone
This would be but one incarnation of what I would deem my "hardbop dream band'. Given enough time, I could think of many more I'd love to hear playing together as a unit.
 

White Knight

Spectral Warrior con passion
Olddude, I'm sorry to learn that you don't like bebop; you're really missing out on--and depriving yourself--of some wonderful music created by great musicians.
 

escher

New member
hard bop, let's see:

sax: booker ervin
trumpet: clifford brown
piano: horace silver
bass: paul chambers
drums: philly joe jones

but i'd much prefer a post bop variation with an extended group:

sax: wayne shorter
trumpet: booker little
piano: andrew hill
bass: charles mingus
dolphy: bass clarinet
vibes: bobby hutcherson
guitar: lenny breau
drums: billy higgins (or tony williams)
 

gord

New member
hi john, there was a time many years ago now, when i didnt like hardbop. then someone gave me a copy of cannonball adderleys-something else on blue note. the powerfull swing from hank jones, sam jones and art blakey and the creativity of adderley and miles davis sold me immediately. on you tube there is autumn leaves from this album, take a listen, i am sure you will enjoy. gord
 

John Watt

Member
Wow! I just don't see McCoy Tyner and Lenny Breau as being bop or hard bop.

It's easy to see Miles Davis as bop, but typing his name after the birth of the cool,
and his forays into fusion with Bitches Brew, means he's not just be-bop any more.

Even though I'm a guitarist, talking this kind of jazz, I'd want Charlie Christian or Barney Kessel.
One horn comes first, Louis Armstrong.
 

escher

New member
Wow! I just don't see McCoy Tyner and Lenny Breau as being bop or hard bop.

in that strange category called post-bop they could be placed absolutely well. It's clear they are not bebop musicians nor simply hard bop. And Louis Armstrong called bop "chinese music", he didn't like it at all :)
 

John Watt

Member
I'll never forget watching t.v. with my parents one night in the sixties, wanting to see Louis Armstrong.
He was a guest with Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra, with a female vocalist,
and they were doing their usual shtick, Louis being gracious and elegant.
When they were getting onto him to start playing,
he just let loose a riff that started off badly and kept getting out of tune the lower he got,
making everyone around him stop and stare at him, astounded,
and then he smiled and got into the tune with his offstage band, sounding hot.
Only Stevie Wonder, putting Whitney Houston in her place, has provided a similar moment of television wonder.

If Louis Armstrong was down on bop, I can dig it, seeing that he's so melodic and his orchestra romantic,
while bop delineated instrument sections into less tonal ranges, good for arrangers, but less scalar in octaves,
what could be described as sounding Chinese, five notes per octave, I think. Or is that Japan? India has 32, sometimes.

I think of Elvin Jones as a polyrhythmic drummer. His first solo album, Agape Love, is one of my favorites.
A friend of mine who saw him still talks about Elvin Jones stepping on his coat as he made his way to the stage.
Like Jimi Hendrix sang, sometimes a depressed, crippled and unspeaking person can jump up and say,
"Look.. a golden winged ship is coming my way, and it didn't have to stop... it just kept on going,
and so castles made of sand slip into the sea, eventually...."

Now I'm thinking the middle of Beethovens' Fifth, what for me is a rainstorm, is a bop precursor.
 
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escher

New member
Now I'm thinking the middle of Beethovens' Fifth, what for me is a rainstorm, is a bop precursor.

why? I'm curious, i remember that the piano sonata n.32 has a syncopated part that reminds jazz rhythm, but where you see jazz in the fifth symphony?
 

John Watt

Member
Too bad I can't even begin to describe the orchestration...
but movements get tumultuous, some movements sounding like rain and distant thunder,
sounding sectional, like a big band swing band.
Frank Chacksfields' recording of "Victory at Sea",
and John Coltrane, with "After the Rain",
are the only other recordings that help me envision a watery scenario,
and a victorious one at that.

If a full symphony was sitting onstage, and someone said "let's jam in A minor",
how long would it take before this group found themselves, musically?
 

OLDUDE

New member
Hi guys,
Sorry but I am just catching up with this thread after my profound comment on 24th feb.
It seems to me that there are considerable differences of opinion on what is (hard) bop or not. For me it was all based on the 50's and Charlie Parker/Dizzy G.
People may be horrified to learn that I didnt have much time for C.P. at that time
although in retrospect his version of "Lover" when he was stoned out of his mind is
a true classic.
Despite his "Birth of the Cool" aspect I dont really rate Miles as a "Bopper" - he made too much good music for that.
Many greats of the time got drawn into "bop" including Stan Getz and Coleman Hawkins bu I dont really think that the phase lasted too long.
Then the likes of Coltrane came along and such music lost all of its interest for me.
Fortunately post bop (true) jazz revivals also came along to resurrect my interest.

Cheers John
 
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White Knight

Spectral Warrior con passion
Olddude, please listen to these works by Coltrane and let me know if your mind is changed: Alabama, Equinox and One and Four {aka Mr.Day}. I believe that the music he and Mccoy Tyner create on these pieces is among the best that jazz--or any other genre--has ever produced. I can't post links right now, but if you go to you tube or spotify, I think you should be able to find them.
 
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gord

New member
hi john, steve is right about coltrane, if you go to page 175 of the what jazz have you been listening to, you will find a link to equinox which is i think the best tune coltrane wrote. gord
 

White Knight

Spectral Warrior con passion
Hi gord and Olddude. If you go to the last page of the "What Jazz Did You Listen to Today" and check my last post, I was able to send you a couple of Coltrane links from you tube. John, please click on them when you get a chance. Thanks. p.s. Please disregard my 18:53 post today in which I stated I was unable to post links. That problem has now--obviously--been squared away. Gord, I really can't argue with your assessment of Equinox; nice call!
 

John Watt

Member
"Alabama" and "After the Rain", slow pieces, are my favorite Coltrane.
Back then, hearing Elvin Jones first solo album, "Agape Love", set a new standard for a trio,
Joe Farrel on sax and flute, Buster Thompson on bass.

I think McCoy Tyners' solo projects uplift the Coltrane spirit, even if it took two sax players.
 

OLDUDE

New member
Hi Steve,
Regarding Coltrane, I checked the 2 youtube refs. and seemed to be getting adverts for toothpaste.
Am I doing something silly?

Cheers John
 
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