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Thread: Did you know that Elgar's Enigma is "Pi"?

  1. #16
    Seaman, Mezzoforte
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    Quote Originally Posted by martist View Post
    Yeah...this is one of the most mystic works ever...and one of my favorite. Every time I listen to it I'm trying to recognize these informations
    Good for you. I find that I hear the 3-1-4-2 (or mi-do-fa-re) about a hundred times as I listen to his music. I find it is easier to see Pi if I view the link provided:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Enigma_theme.png

    Good luck and good listening!

  2. #17
    Chief assistant to the assistant chief JHC's Avatar
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    Well, I just enjoy the music, you could probably apply mathematical theories to any music or do a Robert Newman

  3. #18
    Admiral of Fugues Contratrombone64's Avatar
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    Robert Newman?, he was horrific!
    I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God.
    —Albert Einstein.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Contratrombone64 View Post
    Robert Newman?, he was horrific!
    Poor old Robert I wonder if there are any forums where he is not baned

  5. #20
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    Question What do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by J.H.C. View Post
    Well, I just enjoy the music, you could probably apply mathematical theories to any music or do a Robert Newman
    Certainly the music is paramount!!!!!!!

    However, some people take an interest is showing that mankind can solve a simple riddle (enigma) even if it takes them 110+ years. Elgar deserves better than having his close friend (Dorabella) imply that he lied about the enigma not being "Auld Lang Syne." Some other "scholars" have suggested that there was no solution but Elgar made up the idea to torment people. I think both of those schools of thought deserve to be proven wrong. I also feel it is wrong to continue to publish books, CD liner notes, program notes, encyclopedias, etc. which state that the "enigma" has never been solved and remains a mystery. I think the Pi theory has ample "proof" to satisfy anyone who studies the subject with an open mind. What do you think? ???????

  6. #21
    Commander, Assistant Conductor Ntalikeris666's Avatar
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    Well many musicians were also science persons and that has affected their work. This is a really nice example of this case.

  7. #22
    Chief assistant to the assistant chief JHC's Avatar
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    My dear nimrod I was not criticising you or the theory, I don't really have any thoughts one way or another, for those that want to solve puzzles such as this I wish them well and I will retain a passive interest, Regards

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.H.C. View Post
    My dear nimrod I was not criticising you or the theory, I don't really have any thoughts one way or another, for those that want to solve puzzles such as this I wish them well and I will retain a passive interest, Regards
    Dear JHC, There is no offense taken, rather I thank you for reading my post and giving me your feedback. I know that solving riddles is not the primary interest of most people but I just stumbled upon the enigma solution and want to share it with as many people as possible. I enjoy talking about Elgar after researching his life and work for the past 3 years.

    In a way I find I am up against the "establishment" who do not want the enigma solved, much as Elgar was up against the "establishment" of university educated composers in his time. Ironic.

    Aside from that I find Elgar's enigma to be quite clever. Imagine trying to fit decimal Pi, fractional Pi, and "Four and twenty blackbirds" all into the first six measures of a piece. And then to have the piece become a masterpiece. Elgar was remarkable.

  9. #24
    Admiral of Fugues Contratrombone64's Avatar
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    The establishment, eh? In a line from the Pirate King (The Pirates of Penzance) when asked if he though a life of piracy was honourable, he said: "compared with respectability, it's comparatively honest" ...
    I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God.
    —Albert Einstein.

  10. #25
    Chief assistant to the assistant chief JHC's Avatar
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    CT are you a G&S follower

  11. #26
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    One of my online friends observed that Elgar's 1929 hints were issued with his Pianola (Pi-anola) rolls. Could that be one more hint that Pi was the enigma??

  12. #27
    Admiral of Fugues Contratrombone64's Avatar
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    Lets get one thing clear shall we... the enigma has not been solved as only Elgar can do that with complete certainty (he's not answering his phone at present), all that has happened is that another plausible theorum has been put forward.
    I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God.
    —Albert Einstein.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Contratrombone64 View Post
    Lets get one thing clear shall we... the enigma has not been solved as only Elgar can do that with complete certainty (he's not answering his phone at present), all that has happened is that another plausible theorum has been put forward.
    Who would believe Elgar? He told us there was an enigma but one of the "plausible theorums" suggests that Elgar had no enigma but just wanted to tease us to distraction. Another of the "plausible theorums", Auld Lang Syne, was flatly denied by Elgar when suggested by Dorabella, but she did not believe him and wrote a book in which she still declares that the enigma is Auld Lang Syne.

    There is only one "plausible theorum" that can relate to Elgar's 1929 statements issued with release of his EV pianola rolls, and it is not Auld Lang Syne.

    I will admit that the title of my thread is only my humble opinion, but I put it out there to enlighten and to elicit other opinions. Thanks to all who have taken time to respond.

  14. #29
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Therefore, a riddle wrapped up(enshrouded) in mystery inside an enigma.............
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  15. #30
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    "Solving Elgar's Enigma" is now printed in the latest issue of Current Musicology published by Columbia University.

    One additional piece of evidence was added. Elgar wrote a double bar after the sixth measure. The double bar usually indicates the end of the work but since it came before the end of the phrase, it obviously meant something else. It ended the string of Four and twenty blacknotes baked in Elgar's Pi.

    Cheers.

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