Spanish Organs and music.

[Ntalikeris666]

Hello again,

One of the most special organ characters, are the one that spanish organs have. Their extraordinary design and selection of stops make them somehow unique. An interesting fact is that even the smallest organ, might have en-chamade trumpets, since the idea behind those old organs, was (when they were constructed) to produce as much noise as possible without using excessive amounts of air, resulting in the known "wind disease".
So don't be surprised if even the smallest instrument has has reed stops. In addition to that, the mixtures and principals of spanish organs have quite a unique character and tuning as well. Here are some interesting clips of Spanish organ music performed on various historical spanish organs:
-Note that some of these organs are still hand pumped-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gacC...os=YOfzfaVcr7Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baDDTH0hMf0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuKG9...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NinoO...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH97M...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8t6X8buaLo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryHGm...os=tKYu2qxCsbs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryHGm...os=tKYu2qxCsbs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m-T9...os=pf4aClxB8Lg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVMz4XDR6eE

[Ghekorg7]

Great work here Nick. Invaluable information, at least to me...
I'm building a Spanish Organ (very small) example for Kontakt4 using original samples from real Spaniards. So I 'll have to do some more homework now after your post...

[Ntalikeris666]

Great work here Nick. Invaluable information, at least to me...
I'm building a Spanish Organ (very small) example for Kontakt4 using original samples from real Spaniards. So I 'll have to do some more homework now after your post...

Glad to know that my information was useful!
Thats a really interesting project. I wish you the best of luck.
There are many sites where you can get information for old historical spanish organs and their unique features.

Keep me posted,
Nick

[wljmrbill]

Thanks Nick for posting. Very enjoyable music. I really like the Callido Gaetano organ at Church of San Leonardo

[Luis Enrique]

I work on a 20 stops, 100 years old Alberdi-Marti Spanish organ. It has nice sounds...but...it has ¡6! reed stops and a weak principal. Too much noise to my taste.

[Luis Enrique]

I work on a 20 stops, 100 years old Alberdi-Marti Spanish organ. It has nice sounds...but...it has ¡6! reed stops and a weak principal. Too much noise to my taste.

Me again: anybody could take look to this organ in:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tLBUqrcQfk

[wljmrbill]

Luis.. nice playing. I agree a bit brassy/shreiking overtones. Thanks for link.... Bill

[Krummhorn]

Luis,

Thanks for sharing this ... I agree, nice playing, and a wonderful sound considering its age and voicing. Love the natural reverberation there, too.

[Contratrombone64]

Afraid to say I'd rather have root canal than listen to a Spanish pipe organ frankly, especially those anicent ones. Sound, to me at least, is a cross between a lawn mower and a kazoo

[Ntalikeris666]

You are welcome.
Thanks all for your kind comments ;-)

Cheers,
Nick

[Ntalikeris666]

Me again: anybody could take look to this organ in:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tLBUqrcQfk

Hmmm, here is a clip of a guy playing on a similar but bigger organ.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLNFogXN9k8

Cheers,
Nick

[Ghekorg7]

Afraid to say I'd rather have root canal than listen to a Spanish pipe organ frankly, especially those anicent ones. Sound, to me at least, is a cross between a lawn mower and a kazoo

David my friend, what can I say....With this opinion of yours, you seem to throw all Spanish culture, art and history into the waste basket, or as we say in Greece, into Ke(h)adas !
What is the difference between an Ileno stop and a Mixture stop ?
What is the difference between a Violon8' stop and a Bourdon/Rohrflote8'?
What is the diference between a Flautado8' and a principal/Montre8'?
No difference at all. Unless you mean that a principal 8' sounds like a lawnmower....
Be more specific and detailed ,please....

Cheers
Panos

[Ntalikeris666]

David my friend, what can I say....With this opinion of yours, you seem to throw all Spanish culture, art and history into the waste basket, or as we say in Greece, into Ke(h)adas !
What is the difference between an Ileno stop and a Mixture stop ?
What is the difference between a Violon8' stop and a Bourdon/Rohrflote8'?
What is the diference between a Flautado8' and a principal/Montre8'?
No difference at all. Unless you mean that a principal 8' sounds like a lawnmower....
Be more specific and detailed ,please....

Cheers
Panos

Well, Panos,
I would like to clear something out considering the names of the stops.
A Violon8' and a Principal 8' dont have the same pipes. Maybe something in their construction differs. Other than that, it is just the origin of the organ. A German one will more likely have a Prinzipal 8 while an english one an Open Diapason 8. Speaking generally, they are in the same Diapason category, but when it comes to specifics they might sound different. Since these names are found on different organs (cavaille coll , Silbermann lets say) you might as well find a Mixture IV in both of them, but it will sound nothing close to that. Same goes to the reeds and other flue pipes.
Details such as how high the mouth of the pipe is, or what exactly the pipe is made of, air pressure and many other factors, determine the final sound which comes from a pipe.
So the difference between stops which share the same name translated in different languages, depends on where the organ originates from.

So in a case where we say that a Principal stop is weak, it is meant that it might speak slowly, or it might not have a full round tone.

Cheers,
Nick.

[Ghekorg7]

OK Nick. Don't disagree with what you say, but I said Flautado 8'. This stop sounds to me close to Principal8' found on German organs. And Principal8', I think, sounds louder and richer in harmonics than a Rohrflote8', Example : one can play a manualiter piece (Bux169)with only Principal8' (Schnitger, Flentrop, Silberman) and sound marvelous. With a Rohlflote8' alone one can play a good accompaniment to a positiv solo....

Anyway, the flautado 8' sample that I got sounds beautiful and rich. as is the Ileno very close to a mixtureIV of any German organ.

My point is that Spanish organs have a great history behind them, sound diferent in some cases and very familiar in others and we cannot just overthrow them out of site.
Great Spanish organs : St.Agusti,Palma - St.Geroni, Palma - St. Martin, Trujillo, Orgue de Covarrubias, to name a few.

I just finished my Spaniard for Kontakt4. Is an experiment : 2man/ped, just 3 stops each and a big Cathedral environment. I was dealing with the actual samples for 15 days now, so I have them in my ears even now as we speak !!!!

Proposition : Any member who wants to try it and give me some advice, please welcome, pm me to e-mail the bank (provided one has Kontakt4 installed....)

So,...to be continued , I must say.
Panos

[Ntalikeris666]

OK Nick. Don't disagree with what you say, but I said Flautado 8'. This stop sounds to me close to Principal8' found on German organs. And Principal8', I think, sounds louder and richer in harmonics than a Rohrflote8', Example : one can play a manualiter piece (Bux169)with only Principal8' (Schnitger, Flentrop, Silberman) and sound marvelous. With a Rohlflote8' alone one can play a good accompaniment to a positiv solo....

Anyway, the flautado 8' sample that I got sounds beautiful and rich. as is the Ileno very close to a mixtureIV of any German organ.

My point is that Spanish organs have a great history behind them, sound diferent in some cases and very familiar in others and we cannot just overthrow them out of site.
Great Spanish organs : St.Agusti,Palma - St.Geroni, Palma - St. Martin, Trujillo, Orgue de Covarrubias, to name a few.

I just finished my Spaniard for Kontakt4. Is an experiment : 2man/ped, just 3 stops each and a big Cathedral environment. I was dealing with the actual samples for 15 days now, so I have them in my ears even now as we speak !!!!

Proposition : Any member who wants to try it and give me some advice, please welcome, pm me to e-mail the bank (provided one has Kontakt4 installed....)

So,...to be continued , I must say.
Panos

Oh, sorry i must have misinterpered your post.
I did not get it right at first.

Thanks for clearing it out.
Nick.