Question about notes in BWV 566.

[Ntalikeris666]

Hello everyone,

I have a question about this piece when it comes to its notes and the various versions around. I am aware that it has been written in 2 tonalities E and C major. If you see the score, (should be same notes from version to version just different keys), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e329pbyNZk At 10:00 min. exactly harmonically you hear and see a V-V-I connection, and then goes on to II-V-I. But the question i have is about the I on the V-V-I part. In the Koopman version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg1WmL_L8yI (that part is at 9:52 to 9:53) i am quite sure i can hear a seventh or an extra note in the I after the two Vs. In the Hans Fagius recording, i am quite sure i can hear it as well (it is played slower compared to Koopman and it can be distinguished easier as well.)
Here is the Fagius one http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=WPyg...os=ecpWcLE_eGU and the same part is at 9:50.

Any help?

Cheers,
Nick.

[Marc]

It's not easy to hear, I must admit. I had to play the Fagius from disc, at a slower speed.

First, I'm just a layman, so this could be a wild guess: could it be an adornment, in the shape of a broken chord (he suggested very hesitantly)?

I am aware that it has been written in 2 tonalities E and C major. If you see the score, (should be same notes from version to version just different keys) [....]

Well, the last assumption might be .... not entirely true.
From what I know, there are differences in the E and C major versions, probably because of the size and range differences of the various keyboards.

Also, there are no original Bach manuscripts of BWV 566, but only various copies by others (mainly pupils of Bach) of both versions, probably with slight differences. This is quite often the case in the Bach organ catalogue.

Sometimes these differences are caused by mistakes by copiists, sometimes because of the earlier mentioned different instruments that the copiists played themselves, with different keyboard or pedal range for instance.

So, what version do the various organists nowadays prefer to use?
Johann Tobias Krebs, Johann Christian Kittel, Johann Kirnberger, Christian Friedrich Gottlieb Schwenke?

[Contratrombone64]

I only know the version in E major, it's a wonderful work and has some strange almost unBachian moment, like the the descending handfuls of arpeggios 28 bars from the end, very odd.

[Ntalikeris666]

It's not easy to hear, I must admit. I had to play the Fagius from disc, at a slower speed.

First, I'm just a layman, so this could be a wild guess: could it be an adornment, in the shape of a broken chord (he suggested very hesitantly)?



Well, the last assumption might be .... not entirely true.
From what I know, there are differences in the E and C major versions, probably because of the size and range differences of the various keyboards.

Also, there are no original Bach manuscripts of BWV 566, but only various copies by others (mainly pupils of Bach) of both versions, probably with slight differences. This is quite often the case in the Bach organ catalogue.

Sometimes these differences are caused by mistakes by copiists, sometimes because of the earlier mentioned different instruments that the copiists played themselves, with different keyboard or pedal range for instance.

So, what version do the various organists nowadays prefer to use?
Johann Tobias Krebs, Johann Christian Kittel, Johann Kirnberger, Christian Friedrich Gottlieb Schwenke?

Well, i assumed that it was not a mistake by Hans, since the same extra note can be heard in the Koopman recording. Though, i am not sure whether the reverbation of the place has to do anything with that.

Indeed, it is quite possible that in some of the various versions the copiers might have made mistakes or alterations in their various copies depending on all these factors that you mentioned, but i will do some research in the scores i might have, and i will also try downloading other versions.

Thanks for the info,
Nick