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Thread: ritardando, smorzando, perdendosi or morendo?

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    Lieutenant Commander, Concertmaster Teo's Avatar
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    ritardando, smorzando, perdendosi or morendo?

    Hi and thanks googles,

    I have a composition where a note goes slower, slower and slower still - but stays at the same volume. One of my teachers said to put: ritardando and then below that: sempre mp I added the english and wanted it more than one ritardando so it looks like:


    ritardando e ritardando - slower and slower

    sempre mp - same volume

    Personally I feel like I want "todo notas mas ritardando" or something to say each note is slower.

    Here's the score: http://givnology.com/scores/FromYouAndMe.pdf It's near the bottom of page 1.

    Suggestions?
    Wagner's music is better than it sounds. - Mark Twain's Autobiography

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    Vice Admiral Virtuoso wljmrbill's Avatar
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    Hum.. perhaps use a tenuendo over the 2nd "d" would do it as that would give you a slow, slower, hold concept. or change the notation and add a measure = same result.
    ....To play only what is written is the domain of science. To realize what is not written is the domain of art."
    - Jean Langlais

    I wish you the Best for each day, now and always.

    Bill

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    Admiral of Fugues Contratrombone64's Avatar
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    Hey Bill,

    I can't think of any reason you can't use English. We don't speak Italian afterall (or at least most of us) and the use of Italian was abandoned in the 19th century most notably by the Germans, who used their vernacular when describing musical expressions. Some 20th centure English composers insisted on Italian (Elgar and Vaughan-Williams spring to mind) where Britten used English a lot.

    Interestingly, google translate produced slowing, dampening, losing and dying when the title of this thread was dumped in and then translated from Italian to English.
    I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God.
    —Albert Einstein.

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    Commodore con Forza Soubasse's Avatar
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    "progressively slower but at the same volume" would work for me (and I suspect quite a few players). The reason I'd suggest "but at the same volume" is mainly due to the inordinate number of people who seem to get quieter as things slow down (and vice-versa!).

    Given that Italian still seems to be relatively universal in regard to perfomance directions, it wouldn't hurt to have both (Italian and English), particularly if you're lucky enough to have your piece performed by other performers outside your own country. In that case the one you've already put up there (ritardando e ritardando e sempre mp) would work just as well. Personally, I'd stay clear of perendosi and morendo for the direction you're after as both of those words generally tend to suggest slowing and fading.
    Music is made to transform the states of the soul, for an hour or an instant (J. Alain)

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    Lieutenant Commander, Concertmaster Teo's Avatar
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    I reeeeeally appreciate the comments you guys! All of them are really informative.

    It's in some ways the most important part of the song, it's the intro and finale! I really don't want it any quieter and that's why I didn't use smorzando, perdendosi or morendo, because people often just get quieter even when it's not written.

    OK I'll admit it.. what is a tenuendo?

    You guys are angels, thanks googols for your help!!!!!
    Wagner's music is better than it sounds. - Mark Twain's Autobiography

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    Vice Admiral Virtuoso wljmrbill's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Teo;112384]I reeeeeally appreciate the comments you guys! All of them are really informative.


    OK I'll admit it.. what is a tenuendo?
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Old age I can not remember how to properly spell it.and no Dictionary
    A line over the top of the note.. meaning to extend( drag out) the rit. note(s). Debussy's Arabesque I in the 16th measure you will see it used on G2-F2-G2.. Other composers have used this method also.
    ....To play only what is written is the domain of science. To realize what is not written is the domain of art."
    - Jean Langlais

    I wish you the Best for each day, now and always.

    Bill

  7. #7
    Commodore con Forza Soubasse's Avatar
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    I've always thought that was a tenuto.
    Music is made to transform the states of the soul, for an hour or an instant (J. Alain)

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    Vice Admiral Virtuoso wljmrbill's Avatar
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    That is it.... Soulbasse...Thanks
    ....To play only what is written is the domain of science. To realize what is not written is the domain of art."
    - Jean Langlais

    I wish you the Best for each day, now and always.

    Bill

  9. #9
    Recruit, Pianissimo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Contratrombone64 View Post
    Hey Bill,

    I can't think of any reason you can't use English. We don't speak Italian afterall (or at least most of us) and the use of Italian was abandoned in the 19th century most notably by the Germans, who used their vernacular when describing musical expressions. Some 20th centure English composers insisted on Italian (Elgar and Vaughan-Williams spring to mind) where Britten used English a lot.

    Interestingly, google translate produced slowing, dampening, losing and dying when the title of this thread was dumped in and then translated from Italian to English.
    I'm italian that use of italian word was international, but now it isn't.
    But we often meet the score which use again the old practise.
    In the music are two parameters: Agogica and Dinamica.
    Rallentando, accelerando without low the volume is agogica,
    Playing slower or luoder is dinamica, decrescendo crescendo.
    In the music there are only two which i quoted.

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