Beta 1 of Kalvträsk church released

[L.Palo]

Hi all vpo enthusiasts!

I've now uploaded a new free sampleset to http://www.familjenpalo.se/vpo/download of the small organ built by Per Zacharias Strand 1839 (originally for Burträsk church, now standing in Kalvträsk church).

The organ has seven stops in original state with one manual and constantly coupled pedal. The original has the following disposition.

Principal 8'
Gedackt 8'
Fugara 8'
Octava 4'
Qvinta 3'
Octava 2'
Trumpet 8'

In an extended version the organ has two manuals and pedal with 22 stops all tuned to a1=440 Hz and derived from the original files only.

The recording procedure was slightly different from my earlier sets so any feedback on sound quality will be appreciated. Actually, any feedback at all concerning the set will be appreciated!

The set includes double .wav files (one set for original and one tuned) so it's a bit bigger than normally, also the reverb tails are a bit longer. For more information read the .html file in the OrganInfo folder.

The set is intended for GrandOrgue so Hauptwerk users wishing to use the set MUST change the background images in the definition file, and also the REF: lines in the extended version by dropping the first zero indicating the manual (REF:MMM:SSS:PPP to REF:MM:SSS:PPP).

Anyway, it's a set for enthusiasts mainly! I hope you'll enjoy it!

Kind regards

[Ghekorg7]

Hallo Lars !

THAAAANKS !!

What beauty is this?

I played some hours with both original and extended. The only thing I changed in ODF was the tremulant speed in extended version (too fast for my taste and not so classic speed....).

In every aspect this set is superb.

The original is mild and sweet and the release samples you recorded with each sample give me the impression (lookin' at the great photos too) of the whole environment, like being there. You know I like one manuals so this one too won my hart imediately.

The extended becomes a nice two manual and indeed very usefull for nowadays, as is tuned for todays music and has all stops one needs to play some works for small organs.
I liked the scharf III. It's a pain in the ..... to get one workin' right and sounding like a lite III mixture. I know, I've passed through there and I will...

The Corno di Baseto 8' stop though, I think, is like having together Gedackt and Fugara.... just thinkin'...., but nice addition.
Nice effort the Corno 8' from trompette......
Also Violoncello from Fugara and Basoon & subas 16 with Burdon 16 add a lot of potential to this version.

Indeed you did something with the way you recorded the original. I like this way better than Burea (!!!!? .... yes....). Gives an overall more real organ.

Overall a beauty.

Hmmmm I like to see in GO the kind I use in jOrgan, when opening and closing stops. In GO is like open/close a lamp..... In jOrgan when open the stop's getting bigger than it was closed... more real I believe.
When we will be able to work in GO the graphics like in jOrgan (and HW) and include in GO sets stop levers from photos of real ones ? Also keyboards, switches ect..... Just dreamin'

Aceept my congrats for this one and thanks again for your wonderful gift !
Cheers !
Panos

PS. I will "write" to Krummhorn to add this one to the growing Free Index of mine... yeah !

[L.Palo]

Nice to hear that you like it! Even such a "little" set is demanding quite a few hours to finish.

With the recording I first of all used different equipment since I recorded directly into the computer from the Alesis iO2. That means it was recorded at 24/48 but perhaps with better pre-amps than with the Microtrack.

Then I only used one mic position for all of the recording, fairly close. One can clearly hear what pipes from Principal 8 and Octava 4 that stands in the facade.

From the article "The stereophonic zoom" I took the data for distance and angle between the microphones so that the stereo spread should be good. (I think that I arrived at some 21 cm apart and at 70 degrees from each other)

Kind regards

[Mathbob]

Lars,

Also my thanks for these organs! Both Kalvstrack versions are delightful!

I've installed the Burea chapel organ, but not yet the 3-manual instrument. Question: On the chapel organ, the celeste seems to be way too sharp. Am I running into tuning problems?

Thanks,
Bob

[L.Palo]

The celeste of the Funeral Chapel is quite sharp, yes! It's not a problem of yours. When I tuned the rank I took a few samples and compared the difference between Celeste and Salicional. Unfortunately, it varied quite a lot, since the recording was done at apporximately 15-16 degrees celsius against normal 20.

So, when I prepared the stop I just took the biggest difference in cents and applied that over the whole compass. But I agree with you that the celeste may be a wee bit too sharp and almoast agressive as it is now.

Perhaps I ought to change that a little for the next release? Other users are welcome to give their opinion.

Kind regards

[Mathbob]

I just installed the Burea organ (AGO version). A few set-up wrinkles to work out, but one problem: I'm using a "normal" size screen, which cuts off the right three drawknob columns (2-1/2 really). Is there an easy way to horizontally shrink it without major overhauls? [I tried changing the DispScreenSizeHoriz from Medium Large to Medium, but it didn't like that at all.]

Thanks,
Bob

[L.Palo]

To display the extended sets medium large horizontal setting you have to have at least 1272 pixels width of the screen (I use 1366x768 myself). So the easiest adjustment is to change your monitors resolution (if possible) to a greater setting.

Otherwise you'll have to rearrange the stops in another way in the .organ file (adjust DispDrawstopCol and DispDrawstopRow for the stops and in the top level [organ] section), but that would defeat the very purpose of the actual layout that tries to mimic the AGO standard. But it's certainly possible to find a solution for a layout that would be more 4x3 but it's some work to adjust the layout to for instance 6 columns (3 on each side) and 10 rows, moving all couplers and tremulants to center. It's hard to find a good looking and logical layout!

If someone comes up with a nice layout that suits a lower 4x3 resolution (say 1024x768), you're very welcome to post the .organ file to me or Graham and we'll add it to our list of improvements to be made.

Kind regards

[Krzysztof]

Hello Lars,

first of all, I'd like to say thank you. As I suspect, your sets took more time to finish than it can be imagined while playing.
I'm a complete amateur and (not being a musician) I find a great fun in VPO - so it's wonderful for non-proffesionals that there exist free sample sets.
I recently played your set and noticed some strange tones. Moreover, because of that I've registered and written this post. Exactly, I mean truly beautiful Principal 8', both original and tuned versions. There is something wrong with (mainly) 057-A and both it's neighbours, 056-G# and 058-A# (less obvious). Side effect of filtering?

The Scharf is really very nice, I've not heard any better sounding digitally-created mixture.
Would you mind if I ask about a software you are using? Maybe it's a kind of an artist's secret, but I was wondering if it's all free tools or something like Sony Sound Forge editor.

Best wishes from over the Baltic Sea,

Krzysztof

[L.Palo]

Hi, and thanks for reporting in! I'll look into the Principal strange sounding notes. What version of vpo software and what platform do you use? (Sometimes there are slight differences between the windows and linux versions of GrandOrgue so it's good to know what is your reference)

I first came up with the general build-up of the scharf by looking in different books and tried to find a composition that would fit into this organbuilders tonal scheme. This is what I arrived at:

036-C to 059-B have one 2' (from the octave 4), one 1 1/3' (from the Qvinta 3) and one 1' (from the Octave 2)

060-C to 083-B have one 2 2/3' (from the Qvinta 3), one 2' (from the Octave 2) and one 1 1/3' (from the Qvinta 3)

084-C to 096-C have 4' (from Octave 4), 2 2/3' (from Qvinta 3) and a 2' (from Octave 2)

The way I then created the sound files for sharf was actually suggested to me by Graham! (I actually have him to thank for most of what I know about vpo's) Anyway, I created a three rank disposition for GrandOrgue containing the files for the stops mentioned above, activated all three stops (actually ranks within the scharf) and recorded the sound output from GrandOrgue in a much similar way to sampling any other stop (only made within the computer now).

After that it was just to split up the resulting file into single notes and put in loops and releases for the all the new scharf III sound files.

Kind regards

[el_supremo]

FYI: I tried loading Kalvtrask-ext.organ in Hauptwerk V3.30.
I had to change all the 3 digit numbers after "REF:" to two digit numbers (as I did with Burea).
But HW also complained about image numbers in the file. I changed the following 5 lines as shown here to 30 (which seems to be the maximum that HW allows).

DispDrawstopBackgroundImageNum=30
DispConsoleBackgroundImageNum=30
DispKeyHorizBackgroundImageNum=30
DispKeyVertBackgroundImageNum=30
DispDrawstopInsetBackgroundImageNum=30

I don't know if these values are valid/reasonable - the background displayed by HW is darker than that shown by GrandOrgue - but the file loads and sounds really good.
A very nice, small organ that, with HW, loads in 811MB on 64-bit Win 7 Pro. With GrandOrgue it loads in 339MB.

Pete

[Krzysztof]

I'll look into the Principal strange sounding notes. What version of vpo software and what platform do you use?

I'm running GrandOrgue on Windows, but the problem doesn't seem to be platform-dependent. Just play consecutive Principal notes in any music player - you'll definitely stop at 057-A.

[L.Palo]

Ok, now I know what it is. It's actually the body of the pipe that vibrates against another pipe, or possibly the support device, making that metallic rattling sound. There's a similar thing with the Octave 4 055-G and to a lesser degree a few other notes.

For the original, I'd be inclined to leave it in there but for the extended it's possible to exchange the offending notes with neighbour pitch shifted ones instead.

Thanks for reporting.

[Ghekorg7]

Hi guys.

Personally I like these out of order issues with some pipes !
I believe this is the beauty of each one organ we sample/play. It's the original state.
Even in extended versions, after all these extensions are based on the organ in question.
If I had a set of Alkmaar organ I wouldn't bother with that out of tune note in Oboe stop !

If we need a "clean" organ set to play we can use/make a composite, like Enigma, Brut-Leuchten ect. Just food for discussion...

There are differences between GrandOrgue(all versions, MyOrgan too) and HW1 formats, indeed.
Example is the Spanish organ by Herrero.
It just wouldn't load in GrandOrgue. This set I got with many ODFs. If worked for GO , one would keep just one file with the samples, but if opened in HW3.3 as HW1 import, then each ODF is a new organ for HW3 and the result is more than 2GB memory consumed if we need all versions of this Spanish Organ. So here GrandOrgue rules !

I 've made an example of my own on this Spanish organ workin' for GrandOrgue and indeed plays and sounds very good.
I know many GO fans need this organ, so my intention is to upload it for sharing... does anyone know where I can get in touch with mr Herrero to get permission ?

best
Panos

[Krzysztof]

Hi, I've got two new pedantic issues

First, the 081-A from Octava 2' is too loud. Yes, I know, that's original beauty of the organ... But this propagated to Scharf 081-A and is very clear when playing plenum.

While inspecting sources of above mentioned trouble, I learned that some samples contain short/very short loops. There are long sections of sound which will never be played, because they are placed between loop end point and release marker. I've done some calculations for a few stops, and it looks that there is about 10 MB of silent sample data per stop. Removing that data would speed up loading the set by about 10-15%.
Of course, leaving things in the present state is also a good option - some day someone would want to create a derived set - then sample length makes better quality.

[L.Palo]

Well, yes you're right! I normally shoot for long loops at the end of a sample. But there may be occations when that's not possible (with the tools I use at least).

There might be problems in parts of the audio stream (clicks from heating or other mechanical noises) that prevents the use of desired parts of the .wav file. It's also possible that the looping software doesn't find any good loops that are long and in the good spots. Then I shorten the loop and change the area for it.

In a very few instances (and in a lot of the scharf notes) I've actually resorted to crossfades also, but this of course destroys the wave data so it's only a last resort to be avoided if possible.

Otherwise, my reason for leaving the files intact was so that others that wish to create derivates (or improvements) will have all the material to work with.

Kind regards