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Thread: Modern Baroque????

  1. #46
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso Mat's Avatar
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    Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent.
    -- Victor Hugo


  2. #47
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    Hello.

    The first piece by Legrand is actually pretty accurate as far as form, harmony, etc. The only thing that may spoil it - for the purists - is the blown-up, "non-baroque" arrangement.

    On the other hand, the music from the second video is (intentionally so) more like a caricature of style(s), not true baroque, something done for cinematographic purposes, etc. etc.:-)

    It could be interesting - I personally thing it is mostly a waste of time - to try to draw demarcation lines amongst styles, inspirations, direct quotes, originality, etc. I personally think you can do whatever you want with music. I used to be a stickler and expect every composer, dead or alive to be truly knowledgeable about EVERYTHING (theory, history, etc.)... not anymore. Life's too short to worry about "plagiarizing" another composer, getting too close to his or her style. Today we live in a world where contemporary composers mostly pretend to be original, while they are not... just think about the fact that Pierre Boulez (to take one of the most unforgiving about old styles, who preaches to be original and meaningful and modern at all costs) still uses the orchestra and its instruments which have been around for hundreds of years... shouldn't a true contemporary composer only use modern instruments (electronics)? Again, as long as there are people who enjoy your music, your art or your poetry, who the heck cares about being "true to your times"! I believe that's nothing but an illusion - or, like Cole Porter said: "Everything goes"
    :-)
    Last edited by menefregio; Jul-12-2011 at 22:03.

  3. #48
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso Mat's Avatar
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    I posted the other piece (the one from de Funes movie) mainly because of the short, 30 seconds intro. Think it's got fair amount of modern Baroque in it. The rest of the piece? Maybe not so much. There's this moment at the end where two trumpets are playing a break of some sort, which, to me, sounds almost like jazz.

    Apparently, there's more than just one version. I came across one that has completely different intro.
    Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent.
    -- Victor Hugo


  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat View Post
    I posted the other piece (the one from de Funes movie) mainly because of the short, 30 seconds intro. Think it's got fair amount of modern Baroque in it. The rest of the piece? Maybe not so much. There's this moment at the end where two trumpets are playing a break of some sort, which, to me, sounds almost like jazz.

    Apparently, there's more than just one version. I came across one that has completely different intro.
    Yup. This last one sounds like an Italian group from the '70's/80's called "Rondo Veneziano". I used to abhor them, because, to me, it was just a never ending series of a handful of baroque melodic/harmonic gestures... + drums! Nothing memorable, and I found it enormously annoying. Listen for yourself:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O9SQ...BzVMxsmxnCGyTk

    And what about this one (from the famous diamond commercials):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vXHm8TzLzE

    The guy has CD's out (he was a best seller for a short while) with his stuff - which I don't care about.

  5. #50
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    ...OR, for some quite surprising "Baroque Modern" (modern-sounding music from the baroque), about these:

    From J.F. Rebel (1666-1747):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnlaCenlNHk

    And this from G.F. Telemann (1681-1767):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wj1In5kRsk
    (listen to the last two parts, from 6:43 on, and from 8:27)

    Sometimes time seems not to matter much, doesn't it? This music also shows that traditional (old) composers from another period, were perfectly capable of pushing the limit of tonality and of what was consider "proper", "beautiful", "correct" , etc... although, in the above examples, the reason for such originality and strangeness (for the time) was to write highly descriptive music (chaos before creation, out of tune town musicians, animals, etc.), almost to justify those crazy sounds :-)

    It is now pretty much known that, in the privacy of their own rooms, those composers liked to truly experiment with tonality and forms at will (some of Mozart's late short piano pieces show this tendency. And then there's Beethoven's late compositions...)

  6. #51
    Chief assistant to the assistant chief JHC's Avatar
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    menefregio, The Rebel is fantastic and being Goebels would be on authentic instruments it is the first time that I have heard this work , thanks, the Telemann Had no sound ?? Vivaldi's 4 seasons also has these energetic parts.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    menefregio, The Rebel is fantastic and being Goebels would be on authentic instruments it is the first time that I have heard this work , thanks, the Telemann Had no sound ?? Vivaldi's 4 seasons also has these energetic parts.
    Sorry about the Telemann... the sound works for me. Anyway, those two parts are from his Alster Suite, which you can find somewhere on Youtube, iTunes or elsewhere. The first time I heard the beginning of the slow one, I couldn't guess at all the period...

    True, Vivaldi, Bach and D. Scarlatti wrote plenty of harsh dissonances, "forbidden" progressions and some quite startling passages. But the Rebel's piece (also Telemann's) I gave the link for above, is truly out there as far as being "modern". There are many examples (A. Scarlatti, J. H. Kapsberger, Gesualdo) of composers from the past writing what we think today as "modern music". At the time it was simply strange, shocking - in other words, baroque!

    Anyhow, the point I've been trying to make is that the sounds of a chromatic scale (Western system) have been around for sometimes, and it shouldn't surprise people to hear them in all kind of combinations, some resembling music from the past, others from the future :-)

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