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Software for loop/cue handling

L.Palo

New member
Hi!

By now LoopAuditioneer is updated to version 0.6.4. This latest release fixes the grid table layout/update issue, mostly affecting the windows build when window was resized.

Updating/downloading this latest release is highly recommended for windows users instead of using the older 0.6 versions. As usual the files are available on http://sourceforge.net/projects/loopauditioneer/.

Looking forward to test and possible bug reports.

Kind regards

Lars P
 

Ghekorg7 (Ret)

Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret)
Hi Lars,
Thanks for this update.

I was starting to feel unconfortable with those full screen issues ect.
But, now on 0.6.4 I cannot find any issues...... (?!)
Everything works in order here (win7 64bit and win7 32bit). Zoom, large screen, loop finding and list in the right place on large screen, Cues, play/stop and wav selection.
Is there anything else I should test specifically ?
 

L.Palo

New member
Hi!

Well, I think that 0.6.4 is ready to be seriously used. So the best testing will be to process a few stops with it. I decided to add the keyboard shortcuts to the menu commands because after working with the app for some time I got tired in my mouse hand from all the clicking... Such feelings only come after some extended use, and it's likely that it's the best way to know what's most important as the next improvement.

There are lots of features I want to add, but for now I think I'll have to work on some other things for a while... New samplesets etc! LoopAuditioneer is already pretty competent at what it does so it would be good if more people used it for some time and thus tested it out with real work.

Thanks for the feedback!

Kind regards

Lars P
 

Dorsetmike

Member
Where is loop data stored in a .wav file? Looking at some GO sample set files in a Hex viewer/editor I see in the header the word "cue", on some other non GO files (probably not looped) the word cue does not appear.

Some of the header data is obvious like "wav fmt" but what resides after the word data, or cue? Also is the loop data stored in form of a hex address within the file or is it in time from start of note? (I would guess hex address).

Does it make any difference to GO if the files are mono or stereo?
 

e9925248

New member
Where is loop data stored in a .wav file? Looking at some GO sample set files in a Hex viewer/editor I see in the header the word "cue", on some other non GO files (probably not looped) the word cue does not appear.

Some of the header data is obvious like "wav fmt" but what resides after the word data, or cue? Also is the loop data stored in form of a hex address within the file or is it in time from start of note? (I would guess hex address).

Does it make any difference to GO if the files are mono or stereo?

On Linux, run sndfile-info on a sample [eg. Debian package sndfile-programs]. It prints all the metadata. For the details about storage format, please google for the WAV file specification. GO uses fmt, smpl and cue chunk.

GO 0.3 works with mono and stereo samples - mono is played on left+right channel.
 

Dorsetmike

Member
OK, I've downloaded the win32 version of libsndfile, (I run XP) tried running info and other parts, 5 seconds to take in the command line options is frustrating to say the least, is there anyway to freeze the screen long enough to read it? I had a look at various document files, again not much help. Can anyone point me at some driving instuctions in comparatively plain language.

Using a hex editor I did manage to find cue and smpl but couldn't make head nor tail of the following data, some of the googled .wav specs seem a bit lacking, only found one with much info on smpl and that was not easy to decipher.

I used to be able to write and understand machine code back in the days of 8080 and Z80 processors and use basic and cope with DOS, but tend to get a bit lost with higher level languages like C and its ++'s. (old age has galloped up rather than crept!)
 

L.Palo

New member
Hi!

Try:

sndfile-info file.wav > info.txt

on the command line (in a suitable directory and of course exchange file.wav for the actual file you're interested in) to get the information output into a text file that you can later read in any texteditor.

Some useful links I have browsed are:

https://ccrma.stanford.edu/courses/422/projects/WaveFormat/
http://www.sonicspot.com/guide/wavefiles.html
http://www-mmsp.ece.mcgill.ca/documents/audioformats/WAVE/WAVE.html

The metadata (header) of a .wav file is information contained in "chunks", of which some are absolutely necessary and some are optional, that gives information on the acutal wave data that follows the data marker. Again, how the actual data should be interpreted depends on the information in the header, most importantly the fmt chunk.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly are you interested in? Deep, complete understanding of how the wav format works, or something more specific?

If you read the hex editors number, remember that most of the numbers are in little endian byte order...

Kind regards

Lars P
 

Dorsetmike

Member
I'm working on the Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra individual instrument samples, I did try the IOWA university studio sets but their samples are around 2 seconds which doesn't allow much chance of a decent loop. Each SSO instrument sample folder contains 4 samples per octave over the instrument range, e.g A#, C# E and G; I first open them in Audacity save to a new file using the same naming as GO sample files (e.g. 060-C) change pitch up a semitone, save, up a semitone, save; fetch next note and repeat for however many octaves needed.

I've then tried Loop Auditioneer, Loop finder and SampleLooper to find and save loops, SampleLooper has so far given the best results in terms of being nearest to seamless, the flute samples are a decent length but the volume falls off throughout the sample making it difficult to get a convincing sound, especially when there's a bit of tremolo in there. Violin is not so bad, volume stays fairly constant. I'm still waiting for the SampleLooper authorisation code before I can really start using it.

I suppose I'm just playing about - up to a point - the end target is to use say a flute or violin with a harpsichord set and see what a trio sonata comes out like, or maybe try a brass quartet. This time of year being retired I have time on my hands for projects like this. Passes the time!
 

L.Palo

New member
Hi!

Seems like a very interesting project to me! Use whatever software you feel comfortable with. LoopAuditioneer is free and quite competent but will most of the time require some tweaking to find the best loops, since the defaults will certainly not work with every sample.

On the other hand the possibilities for tweaking are very good in LoopAuditioneer, not to mention that it's much more stable than SampleLooper...

Feel free to start a new thread about your orchestral sampleset and keep us informed about it's progress! I'd suppose many GO users could be interested in something like that.

Kind regards

Lars P
 

L.Palo

New member
LoopAuditioneer 0.6.5 is released!

Hi!

Finally a new version! The pitch detection is now (hopefully) improved with the possibility to use either FFT-based or time domain based detection or as before manually set the pitch information to be stored in the file.

A new feature to boost the playback volume, (no modifications written to the file!) usable for easier detection of faults in the loops of softer samples, is added.

The zoom in on amplitude is further increased a little.

The windows package is now cross-compiled from Linux. As usual all the files can be downloaded on http://sourceforge.net/projects/loopauditioneer/.

Any feedback or bug reports are of course welcome!

Kind regards

Lars P
 

L.Palo

New member
Hi!

You (and every other user) are welcome!

Especially the new pitch detection feature will be important together with future versions of GrandOrgue. This will allow samplesetproducers to skip the modification (degrading of the original sound) of the audio files in the tuning step. Instead the pitch information will be stored in the audio file itself and GO will know how to retune the sample (together with the harmonic information put into the ODF) to sound in tune according to selected temperament.

It's also possible to use batch processing to just list the pitch deviation from equal temperament with a1=440. It can be used to manually put the correction for every pipe into the ODF (or from within the GUI of GO if a user wish to retune the organ)! Note that this may take some time for a complete folder, so if the program seem to stop it's actually just working... Have patience.

It will be interesting to hear how the transition to cross-compiling the application from Linux has affected the Windows build. This is done because I'm mainly using Linux myself and it's much easier for me to have a robust development environment/toolchain (that's also free) there.

Kind regards

Lars P
 

Cybug

New member
Hi Lars

This looks ideal for my plans to uprate some of my samples.
Unfortunately I have been unable to run the program in either Win XP or Win 7 32bit.
I have followed the info on the webpage but I must be doing something wrong as after
I double 'click' the 'exe' file nothing appears to happen?

Any clues please?

Chris
 

L.Palo

New member
Hi!

I'd suspect that it's a problem due to the -sse3 optimizations in the build. (If I've followed some other threads correctly).

If you tell me your processor model/make I can try to compile with another version of the optimizations for you to try.

Kind regards

Lars P
 

Cybug

New member
Hi Lars

Thanks for your reply. Having noted your suspicions, I have run the program on my XP64 "AMD 64 X2 Manchester processor" box which
supports SSE3 instruction set and all seems OK:) The system it failed on was an older AMD Athlon which only supported SSE.

Hopefully I can now have a play.

Thanks again.

Chris
 

Dorsetmike

Member
Still playing with the SSO orchestral instruments set, now doing the double bass, Ive got the pitch shifting sorted now, just trying to improve the workflow and results for loops and releases.

I downloaded a couple of apps from FLStudio (used to be FruityLoops) got the basic FLStudio Express plus the Edison plug in which does the loops, gives a waveform display with a zoom, so you can get right in to zero crossing points and it also allows you to monitor the sound at the same time as you juggle the start and end points. Hopefully this will give me some better results to feed into Auditioneer! (I actually paid for the apps!!!!!!!)

Can anybody suggest an ideal duration for a loop (in seconds)

Contemplating combining bass and cello samples, to give somewhere near the compass of the pedals, then use Blanchet harpsichord to the manuals and try and recreate a recording of BuxWV 160, Chacconne in E min that I hear on Last.fm.
 

Dorsetmike

Member
Looks like this might work, got the double bass loaded to pedals with Blanchet harpsichordon manuals, need to go back and sort out some of the release cue markers, notes not ending when key released, and one of the pitch shifted Dbass notes has shifted way to far. But as it's past my bedtime It'll have to wait until tomorrow.

I've got a 44 note pedal for the Dbass. Wonder if anybody has a bass viol sample set, probably sound a bit better than a double bass with the Harpsichord.
 

Dorsetmike

Member
The bass had to be transposed down a semitone, luckily Audacity has a "chain" option so all 44 notes got transposed in less than a minute - Phew!

Bass was also a bit on the loud side, so far tried changing it in the .organ file, may also try tweaking the volume setting in the Midi file, see which works best/easiest.
 
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