Protests

[southernparks]

Three days ago 400,000 people participated in demonstrations in cities throughout Israel. a lot of people for a small country.

unfortunately there's so much more issues than written in Wikipedia, but for more 'official' info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Is...using_protests
I disagree with the term "housing protests".
the more common use of name is "tents protests", it's for everything related to social issues and living expanse, and maybe for everything I can think of.
tents - because of the thousands of people who sleeps on the streets in tents.


the protest in some matters is very similar to what happens these days in Spain:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Spanish_protests


I'd like to share some videos,


the protest at it's begining (23 of July, nine days after started) in one of the nights in Tel Aviv, the crowd show the police that they are not violating the law, the protesters passing the streets only when there's green light as a symbol:

+ YouTube Video

Music in the "tents village" of Tel Aviv:

+ YouTube Video

and a video shows only a "small" part from the entire demonstration occurred three days ago:

+ YouTube Video

[Lusaka_Guitarist]

Wow! Thats a huge rally.

Lovemore Nanjaya.

[southernparks]

Silent demonstration in Spain (for a minute):

+ YouTube Video

[GoneBaroque]

Thank you southernparks for the videos. No matter where you look there are protests. It is a sad commentary on the state of humanity. As Scotland's Poet Robert Burns wrote "Mans inhumanity to man makes countless thousands mourn".

[JHC]

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work, because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

[teddy]

Thanks for the clips SP. Who sets the cost of housing in Israel? Is it market driven the same as in England, in which case it goes up and down or is it under the control of the goverment? I have to agree with Colins comments. We are subsidising so many people in this country that it sometimes does not seem worth the struggle to work and better ones self. And now we are sudsidising other EU countries who have either overspent or been foolhardy with their management, like Greece. The sting is we are supporting the Euro and we do not even belong to it. Do you have a similar problem in Israel?

teddy

[southernparks]

the main demands of the protesters relate to the low salaries, government's priorities, taxes and cost of living.

from data published in the media:
*an average house in the major cities of Israel today costs more than a house in Manhattan, the same for the rent.
not much of a difference in the small cities, and there are less job opportunities, usualy they earn less.
*a car in Israel costs 5 times more than the same car in the U.S.
*food, electricity, water, insurance, communication, fuel, living expanses. cost around two-three times more than in the U.S and European countries.

the problem is that the average, middle class, salary in Israel is low, far less than the salaries in Europe and U.S

the indirect taxes are very high and the feeling of the protesters is that they don't get something in return. there are some issues with infrastructures, with public transportation, and a large difference between the major cities and the periphery.

Israel's unemployment rate today is 5.7%.
the protesters are from the working public that can't afford a living. usualy rely on bank loans or perents help. they barely profit because the incomes goes for payments. according to calculations average family with 2 kids stays with a minus of 2,500 Sheqels every month.


the housing cost set by the owner of the property. the government sells the land to contractors.
housing prices never really gone down since 1962, only increased (except few years with small downs). and increased dramatically in the past few years.

there are people, mainly from the orthodox groups who choose not to work and subsidise by the government.


what are your opinions about violent and non violent protests.
do you think that protests can achieve real results without violence?

the protests in Spain and Israel suppose to be non violent.

[GoneBaroque]

what are your opinions about violent and non violent protests.
do you think that protests can achieve real results without violence?

Violence begets more violence in a never ending cycle.

[teddy]

It does sound as though the people out there have a tough time. As far as protests are concerned, in a democracy it has to be nin violent. As long as you have the freedom to elect your representatvives there should be no need for violence.

teddy

[southernparks]

need to wait and see if the alternatives to the current government are better or not. if no difference between them, maybe using force is the only way to show you are serious. because someone is probably benefit from the current situation as it is and don't want a real change.

the unofficial leaders of the protest (because there's no official leaders) claim that the protest isn't political, that everyone - left center and right demand social justice. they don't want to go for elections right now, but want the government to bring real solution.

I agree and think that when use violence you never know what the outcomes will be. perhaps strikes and boycott are the answers.

[teddy]

I believe that any one has the right to withold their labour.Also the right to boycot. If this makes me sould like I support the far left, I do not. I am a capatalist at heart but believe in the rights of the individual. You may have heard of the riots in England. They have not done anyone any good and have hurt and even killed people. And they have achieved nothing of any worth. Allthose people would heve been better to stand in the middle of the street and quietly protest. It would have gained them more sympathy.

teddy

[GoneBaroque]

need to wait and see if the alternatives to the current government are better or not. if no difference between them, maybe using force is the only way to show you are serious. because someone is probably benefit from the current situation as it is and don't want a real change.

the unofficial leaders of the protest (because there's no official leaders) claim that the protest isn't political, that everyone - left center and right demand social justice. they don't want to go for elections right now, but want the government to bring real solution.

I agree and think that when use violence you never know what the outcomes will be. perhaps strikes and boycott are the answers.

Don't forget that the politicians regard their principal duty as staying in Office and being re-elected.

[teddy]

Yes, keeping their snouts in the trough

teddy

[southernparks]

I have followed the latest events in England.
are the riots still going on?

Don't forget that the politicians regard their principal duty as staying in Office and being re-elected.

yes, and they do that with excellence

[teddy]

The rioting seems to be over by now. For once the police seem to be doing something positive. What will happen in the courts is a different matter. The man shot by the police, which sparked the riots, was a know criminal and was carrying a gun, which makes the subsiquent riots a joke. There has been too much liberalism in this country starting with the schools where assults on teachers are an every day occurance. Yobos rule the streets knowing that no one can do anything about it. I am a fan of Sherrif Joe Arpaio. If you do wrong your are punished. Too often we see thugs and criminals walk free even after multiple offences who then go out and do it again.

teddy