Difficult organ works

[reelypiano]

Hey again! It's been a long time since I last visited these forums of awesome people with an unending knowledge of everything that has to do with organs. Now I return for your help once more!

Out of curiosity, can you mention a couple of the most difficult (in your opinion, of course) of the romantic/20th century organ litterature? Oh, and a couple of difficult Bach pieces?

OK, ok, not solely out of curiosity. I do plan to play a difficult piece from either cathegory this fall. Of the more diffiult pieces I've played are a couple of massive Duruflé stuff, Liszt BACH-fantasia (I did also start a couple of Livre d'Orgue pieces by Messiaen but never played them seriously, didn't quite become friends with the notes). Those pieces went quite alright, didn't take too much practicing. And I've played a couple of transcendental etudes by Liszt on the piano so I'm used to pieces with a heckload of practicing required. Judging from those criteria, what would you suggest? Oh, and I would like to know what you consider the most difficult pieces anyway too :<

Thanks for the help
V

[Krummhorn]

Here's some that are on my 'bucket' list:

• Carillon de Westminster by Louis Vierne
• Three Rhapsodies by Camille Saint-Saens
• In Springtime by Ralph Kinder (pronounced with short "I")

The Kinder piece is one of those 'fun' works - fun to play and hear ... real crowd pleasers at concerts on the main menu or as an encore.

[Corno Dolce]

Here's my Bucket List:

Sinfonia in D-Major from Cantata 29 by JSBach
Fantasy and Fugue in F-Minor by Mozart
Fugue from Op. 52 Wachet Auf Ruft Uns Die Stimme by Reger

[reelypiano]

Thanks to both of you! Fine pieces indeed - the three rhapsodies by Saint-Saëns were unknown to me. Corno Dolce, regarding the Sinfonia of Bach, are you talking about the version with orchestra, or a transcription for solo? If so which transcription? Now I have something to dig my fingers into this fall as well

[Soubasse]

I still count Messiaen's work as some of the trickiest to master. In my time I've played Le Mains de l'Abime and Chants d'Oiseaux from Livre d'Orgue, Les Enfants de Dieu, Jesus Accepte la Souffrance and Dieu Parmi Nous from La Nativite, and the Diptyque, each of which in their own way were bloody hard to get together.

Would still quite like to have a crack at Les Yeux dans les Roues from Livre d'Orgue.

Other pieces I've looked through and thought "can I afford the headache" include:
Dupre: Variations sur un Noel
Alain: Intermezzo and Trois Danses (I think I'm almost there though!!)
Reubke: Sonata on 94th Psalm
Liszt: Weinen, Klagen, et al or B.A.C.H or Ad Nos
Tournemire: almost anything!

[Krummhorn]

Matt,

That's quite the ambitious list ... especially with Reubke. I had dabbled with the Dupre at one time but gave up not when I ran out of patience, rather when I ran out of organ - 9 ranks on that piece just doesn't hack it

[Corno Dolce]

Corno Dolce, regarding the Sinfonia of Bach, are you talking about the version with orchestra, or a transcription for solo? If so which transcription? Now I have something to dig my fingers into this fall as well

I have always used the Dupre organ version of the Sinfonia, and I will embellish freely, if my mood permits it, but then again, that Sinfonia is the embodiment of "Joie de Vivre" itself.............Which means I'll embellish more often than not

[reelypiano]

Wow, thanks for fast and many replies! Soubasse your lis(z)t contains many pieces I love. (I'm playing les yeux now - and trust me, it's a massive headache...) love Liszt, will def play something else by him this fall, and maybe have a look at Reubke as well. And perhaps gather the courage to play something else by Messiaen. Any of you played the Bach fantasia et fuga in g minor, BWV 542? I played the fantasia last year, thinking about playing the fugue but have tried it out and my god, it's impossible! So many uncomfortable hand positions all the way...

Anyway what do you guys think of Widor's toccata (cliche? nooo) from his 5th organ symphony in terms of difficulty? I'm looking for a "romantic or later" piece of 5-10 minutes to play at an audition right past christmas for the state academy of music here. Need a baroque piece as well but think I'm just going to stick to the fantasia for that. Anyways I'm considering either Duruflé's Choral varié sur le thème du Veni Creator which I've already played, or something else like Widor's toccata. What would you suggest? (I want to play Duruflé's toccata but I don't think I have enough time to learn it properly before the audition)

Thanks again!
V

[Krummhorn]

IMHO, the Widor Toccata and Bach's BWV 565 are oft used way too much ... seems everyone has them on their program menu these days, and I don't know why, except they are wonderful pieces that concert attendees like to hear, but as an accomplished musician, I am bored with hearing them anymore.

The Widor, again imho, isn't really that technically difficult of a piece ... full of repetition in the right hand, easily learnt more by rote than anything else. I play it once a year at church (Easter Sunday prelude) and that's enough of that one for me until the next year .

Have you ever played Elegy by Thalben-Ball? Works well on the menu for a solo program.

Kh

[Corno Dolce]

You don't go wrong with Durufle's "Veni Creator"...Ya know, even Durufle was very sceptical of his Toccata and he made changes to it...He has written so little but whats there is of such high quality...

[Mark DeAlba]

Other pieces I've looked through and thought "can I afford the headache" include:

Tournemire: almost anything!

That gave me a good laugh!

I'll share some difficult stuff I'd like to learn someday like everyone else is, in case the OP likes the idea of any:

Durufle: Prelude et Fugue sur le nom d'Alain
Widor: Allegro & Final from 6th Symphony
Gigout: Toccata in B Minor
Vierne: Toccata in B-flat Minor & Carillon de Westminster
Dupre: Prelude & Fugue in B Major

[Corno Dolce]

Vierne's Final of the 6th. Symph. will give everyone a "workout" - Bwahahahahahaha.......................

[el_supremo]

I don't play the organ but I understand that Alkan's Impromptu Op. 69 is quite difficult:
http://imslp.org/wiki/Impromptu_sur_...es-Valentin%29

Pete

[Corno Dolce]

Try any of the three organ symphonies of Kaikhosru Sorabji and you'll get a new understanding of what difficult is...

[dll927]

Have any of you tried Gigout's Grand Choeur Dialogue? I've watched YouTube clips of a couple of organists playing it. It appears that most of the pedal is done in octaves, meaning double pedalling. Which is enough to give anyone a workout. Of course, some of that Widor Toccata, and many other pieces exhibit the same demand on shoe leather.

Given that most composers of organ music have been organists themselves, they knew what they were facing and expecting others to do. The fact that so many pieces are beyond the talents of most of us speaks for the abilities of those who can, which usually means those who DO!! One sometimes has to wonder how some of those composers did on their own music as they advanced in age. Widor might be a good example. How unfortunate that we don't have decent recordings of so many who have departed our stage.