• Welcome to the Pipe Organ Forum! This is a part of the open community Magle International Music Forums focused on pipe organs (also known as "church organs"), organists, organ music and related topics.

    This forum is intended to be a friendly place where technically advanced organists and beginners (or even non-organists) can feel comfortable having discussions and asking questions. We learn by reading and asking questions, and it is hoped that the beginners (or non-organists) will feel free to ask even the simplest questions, and that the more advanced organists will patiently answer these questions. On the other hand, we encourage complex, technical discussions of technique, music, organ-building, etc. The opinions and observations of a diverse group of people from around the world should prove to be interesting and stimulating to all of us.

    As pipe organ discussions can sometimes become lively, it should be pointed out that this is an open forum. Statements made here are the opinion of the poster, and not necessarily that of the forum itself, its administrator, or its moderators.

    In order to post a new topic - or reply to existing ones - you may join and become a member by clicking on Register New User. It's completely free and only requires a working email address (in order to confirm your registration - it will never be given away!). We strive to make this a friendly and informative forum for anyone interested in pipe organs and organ music.

    (Note: If you wish to link to and promote your own website please read this thread first.)

    Many kind regards
    smile.gif

    Frederik Magle
    Administrator

    Krummhorn
    Co-Administrator

Key sig puzzle

Dorsetmike

Member
Downloaded a piece of Dandrieu today, the Offertoire from the same opus as the Magnificat posted by Panos.

Problem is although it is in D minor, it has no key signature on the PDF file nor the MIDI imported to Finalé both heavily sprinkled with asccidentals, the MIDI import hardly uses any sharps except F# one measure for example has D flat, natural, flat, natural and flat, what's wrong with C#? The PDF does use sharps, but scatters Bb and naturals all over.

I admit it plays the same, just looks wrong to me.
 

L.Palo

New member
Hi!

This is again most likely because the original score has no accidentals. (I can look if I have any facsimile in my library but I'm not sure if I have all works or only a few)

Remember again that in the time of that music the major/minor system as we know it didn't exist. Still music was dominated by the tonalities from the church gregorian chants. Thus it's a piece in d dorian and not d-minor!

Kind regards

Lars P
 

L.Palo

New member
Hi again!

Yes, I can confirm that the original score does not have any accidentals for key signature as I actually have the facsimile of the original engraved Premier livre de pièces d'orgue 1739 from Fuzeau.

The main title for those pieces in question is "Pièces en D. la Re'", and even in the later pieces that expressively say g-minor the notation is with only one accidental as key signature, again keeping the old tratidion.

For Dandrieu much of what we consider normal and right would likely have been very strange, alien and perhaps even false... Just food for thought!

Kind regards

Lars P
 

L.Palo

New member
Yet again...

Sorry, of course the d flat is an enharmonic mis-spelling and should of course be c sharp instead. D-flat didn't normally exist in the usual temperaments at that time.

Kind regards

Lars P
 

Dorsetmike

Member
Much as I suspected, thanks Lars. Mind you the fact that I was importing a MIDI file into Finalé won't have helped!!
 
Top