Grandorgue & Windows 7 64 bit

[e9925248]

I cannot feel any diference with 32bit GOv2 and 64bit GOv3 here. I needed the 64bit one for use with my other 64bit apps (which use Asio).
Also v3 occupied 158MB on my HDD......

GO and its audio code has been improved very much (eg. new setter/coupler panels, Presets, customizations are stored in the User folder, a working cache/compression, a new flexible MIDI handling, support for non 16bit/44100 formats, limited tuning captibilties[not yet included in my last built]).

But if you playback a HW1 compatible sampleset, the audio output should not differ very much to GO 0.2.

This build includes debug symbols - so it very large.

I have no "non saved" sets running here... I'll try decompress one from my archive and post back.

Just to be clear: saved sample set = "in my GO build you pressed saved button, while the sample set was loaded"

I couldn't see any error with saved sets.

24/48000 was a test experiment. There are not yet any 24/48 sets for GO (HW1 format)......

You can upgrade Nick Appletons StAugustines. Take the 24 bit 48000 HW packages and the GrandOrgue package. Replace either the WAVs in the GO package or copy the .organfile the HW packages and adapt the paths to the WAV files.

 

[e9925248]

I said VSTi as an alternative not to have Asio or WASAPI, so Reaper can do the rest

I'm considering replacing RtAudio with PortAudio. I have uploaded to the same location a new built with portaudio included (besides the tuning dialog).
It should include all APIs supported by portaudio (except ASIO) - but some seem to be broken.

 

[7thGalaxy]

Hello again

I've been testing the 64 bit version of GO. I have a couple of questions, for anyone who is experienced with Sibelius & GO.

Firstly, if you send midi controller messages through from Sibelius, what channel do they default on?

Secondly, is there a way of sending instrument changes (to change manuals) without breaking the sound - GO always seems to reset its stops. I haven't tried this in GO 0.3, so it may have been fixed.

Thirdly, is there any way of controlling the pre-set stop selections with Sibelius, so you don't have to write out every stop?

Lastly, there seems to be something strange with the channels - but I can't quite pin down what it is. GO sometimes seems to listen out on the wrong channels or something.

Thanks

Tom

Edit: Oh and i keep managing to crash GO by moving between Sibelius to GO whilst it's playing. It depends on the Organ. My Stiehr-Mocke Extended works fine, all of the others crash.

 

[7thGalaxy]

As an addendum, I've found GO 3.03 64 bit to be very unstable - it keeps crashing as you move between it and Sibelius, which you need to do fairly frequently if you are setting things up.

I also can't get it to read any of the controller messages sent through, using the format ~C61,1 where the 61 refers to the number given to the stop in GO. I have set them to listen on all of the channels for Cx controller changes - is that right?

In GO 0.2 I used midiox to force all controller changes onto channel 16 which I told GO to listen out for. Is this still necessary? If so, does it need to be? Is there a reason than GO can't just accept any controller changes from any channel?

Thanks

 

[L.Palo]

Hi!

Where to start? That GO 0.3 64bit for Windows is unstable is no real surprise... It's a very new and experimental build. On Linux the 64 bit build is working since a long time ago and there it's working as good as the 32 bit build.

In the new GO (0.3+) more or less everything can be connected to any MIDI signal/message.

You can always right click on ANY GUI element in GO and in the MIDI dialog select the appropriate message to listen for.

Regarding Sibelius, you should carefully examine exactly what message it does send. This is because certain messages will tell GO to react to them. It's possible that the instrument change message have some reset message in it, which would cancel all stops...

By the way it's possible to select "Listen for event" in GO MIDI dialog and then send the desired event to it and GO should pick it up.

Kind regards

Lars P

 

[7thGalaxy]

That's cool, I wasn't complaining so much as reporting to whoever is interested!

I'll test that out. Thanks

Tom

 

[e9925248]

Secondly, is there a way of sending instrument changes (to change manuals) without breaking the sound - GO always seems to reset its stops. I haven't tried this in GO 0.3, so it may have been fixed.

GO will still do this, if a MIDI reset is sent (0xFF).
GO will reset all keys on a manual, if a Sound off or Notes off control change message is received.

Thirdly, is there any way of controlling the pre-set stop selections with Sibelius, so you don't have to write out every stop?

Storing in the setter/general and sending a message to trigger a recall?

Lastly, there seems to be something strange with the channels - but I can't quite pin down what it is. GO sometimes seems to listen out on the wrong channels or something.

Please note, that GO 0.3 has two MIDI settings:
The settings in the settings dialog are used for the loading a non-customized (/saved) organ to build the initial MIDI configuration for the organ. Afterwards the MIDI settings are controlled by right-clicking on the control. The new MIDI dialog offers more possibilities the the global settings.

Edit: Oh and i keep managing to crash GO by moving between Sibelius to GO whilst it's playing. It depends on the Organ. My Stiehr-Mocke Extended works fine, all of the others crash.

This should not happen.

Are you using my newer build [2011-12-11, include the organ setting option in the tuning menu]?
Your audio device should be listed several times in the settings dialog (each using a different implementation)
Are there differences between the various implementations?

 

[e9925248]

I've found GO 3.03 64 bit to be very unstable - it keeps crashing as you move between it and Sibelius, which you need to do fairly frequently if you are setting things up.

Does my last 32bit version crash too?

I also can't get it to read any of the controller messages sent through, using the format ~C61,1 where the 61 refers to the number given to the stop in GO. I have set them to listen on all of the channels for Cx controller changes - is that right?

In GO 0.2 I used midiox to force all controller changes onto channel 16 which I told GO to listen out for. Is this still necessary? If so, does it need to be? Is there a reason than GO can't just accept any controller changes from any channel?

The MIDI matching of GO should be flexible enough, so that it should work without any MIDI mapping software.

My first guess would be, that there is some confusion caused by the global MIDI settings (see my last post). Does right clicking on a stop/control and using "Listening for Events" solves the problem?

 

[7thGalaxy]

I am using the latest build - I will just test different drivers now. I can't really test the 32 bit version, as it won't communicate with Sibelius 7!

In addition, GO randomly stopped loading one of my organs - stiehrsmockers extended. It was working, but now on load gives an error saying "Out of Range Value '/Organ/WindowY':-16. The non extended stierhrsmockers did work fine but has now started doing the same but with :-8 at the end. I replaced the files with my backup copies of the organ and the problem remained, even after a restart.

Addendum: seems more stable with a different driver selected, now using St Augustines.

However, GO dosn't seem to be able to accept the "any channel" option for controller messages, so you need to specify which channel you want each stop to listen for - this is fine, as you could either have another stave on a different channel devoted to stops, or set each rank of stops to listen for the same channel as the manual. But "any channel" as an option would simplify this.

Addendum 2: Just tested full organ on the Burea extended organ. It generally works smoothly, no lag, but there is a lot of crackling at times when a lot is going on - I've got the program using all 4 cores of my computer, which reduced the workload, and I have 4 gigs of ram, but I didn't used to get as much crackling as this on my old xp machine with much slower hardware.

 

[e9925248]

In addition, GO randomly stopped loading one of my organs - stiehrsmockers extended. It was working, but now on load gives an error saying "Out of Range Value '/Organ/WindowY':-16. The non extended stierhrsmockers did work fine but has now started doing the same but with :-8 at the end. I replaced the files with my backup copies of the organ and the problem remained, even after a restart.

You did something not anticipated: The saved window position has negative coordinates - I'll add support for negative Window coordinates.
The customizations are saved in an extra folder (see GO settings dialog - default location is in the user folder / application data / GrandOrgueData).
This folder contains customization - you can open the *.cmb files with a text editor to lookup the corresponding organ name. Either delete the WindowY line or the whole setting file.

Addendum: seems more stable with a different driver selected, now using St Augustines.

Could you report the driver name, especially the first part and how well they work for you?

However, GO dosn't seem to be able to accept the "any channel" option for controller messages, so you need to specify which channel you want each stop to listen for - this is fine, as you could either have another stave on a different channel devoted to stops, or set each rank of stops to listen for the same channel as the manual. But "any channel" as an option would simplify this.

Any channel works for me (right-click on the stop: Device: any device, Event: Bx Controller, Channel: Any Channel) and I'm not aware of any bug. What are your settings, if you right-click on the stop?

Additionally, you could add more than one event to any control (right click / new).

Addendum 2: Just tested full organ on the Burea extended organ. It generally works smoothly, no lag, but there is a lot of crackling at times when a lot is going on - I've got the program using all 4 cores of my computer, which reduced the workload, and I have 4 gigs of ram, but I didn't used to get as much crackling as this on my old xp machine with much slower hardware.

Did you turn compression off? This new feature requires more CPU.

 

[7thGalaxy]

When you say compression do you mean compress cache? I have now, I'll let you know tomorrow how it goes when I have some time to test thoroughly.

I have been using Windows Directsound: primary sound driver which seems to be stable.

Settings are the same as yours. I'll test again tomorrow. as I said, it was working if you specified a channel but not working if you told it to look for any channel. To set it up, I had it listen for the event I wanted, then changed the channel to any channel.

It is possible that the co-ordinate problem was caused by moving into fullscreen - fullscreen doesn't seem to work very well, as it locks GO to the right of the screen which is unusual.

Btw, the bug with the stiersmockers organ has gone away without me doing anything at all. I'll try to get it to happen again!

 

[astazou]

I can't really test the 32 bit version, as it won't communicate with Sibelius 7!

Try using loopMidi (www.tobias-erichsen.de/loopMIDI.html)
I use it with GO (0.3.0.3) 32 bit on seven x64 to connect to MidiSwing

 

[e9925248]

When you say compression do you mean compress cache? I have now, I'll let you know tomorrow how it goes when I have some time to test thoroughly.

No, I mean lossless compression.

The cache compression can only have an effect on the load time from the cache.
The setting itself only affects the next update cache operations - existing cache files are used as they were created. On Windows, you must test yourself, what option
works the best for your setting.

I have been using Windows Directsound: primary sound driver which seems to be stable.

Fine. This is the new portaudio Direct Sound backend.
Feedback about problematic drivers is also welcome.

Settings are the same as yours. I'll test again tomorrow. as I said, it was working if you specified a channel but not working if you told it to look for any channel. To set it up, I had it listen for the event I wanted, then changed the channel to any channel.

Did you change the device filter also to any - otherwise only events from one MIDI interface will be matched.

It is possible that the co-ordinate problem was caused by moving into fullscreen - fullscreen doesn't seem to work very well, as it locks GO to the right of the screen which is unusual.

Btw, the bug with the stiersmockers organ has gone away without me doing anything at all. I'll try to get it to happen again!

Fullscreen is not supported, each window has a maximum allowed size - its an bug, that the fullscreen button works.

 

[7thGalaxy]

Ok, testing completed. I can confirm that GO dosn't listen on ANY channels if the "any channel" option is selected. Here is how I tested:

I have a manual soundset for sibelius 7 set up. the SW is on channel 2, the pedal is on channel 5. I set up a stop selection, 3 stops on the swell, 1 on the ped. I told the ped stops to listen out for channel 5, and the sw stops to listen out for channel 2. I input the stops changes into sibelius using ~C<stop number assigned to it>,1 . The swell stops I put on the SW stave, therefore they are sent on the same channel as the SW. I did the same for the ped stop, attaching it to the ped, so it is broadcast on channel 5

First test - all of the stops are selected as they should be, at the point I desired.

I then changed 2 of the stops to listen on any channel. And ran the test again. The stops told to listen for a particular channel turned on as desired, the stops listening for "any channel" didn't select anything.

I've also noticed some strange behaviour - for example, in the same score, I have my Tierce set on Data 33, and a Cymbol at 32. So in the score I have ~C33,1 to activate the Tierce, which works fine. However, ~C32,1 dosn't do anything, even if I add it to the same message ( so ~C33,1 C35,1 C37,1 C32,1) All of them except for the Cymbol will get activated!

Another bit of strange behaviour - the SW sub octave activates without any message to activate it.

Hope that's helpful.

Tom

 

[7thGalaxy]

Oh, and I'm still getting lots of nasty crackling noises on the Burea organ, not even with lots of stops working at once.

 

[7thGalaxy]

Would anyone be interested in the soundset & preferences files I've created to get Sibelius to be able to output on different channels depending on which manual you specify? (you can change from gt to sw by using an instrument change)

If so, let me know and I'll tidy them up and email them.

Tom

 

[7thGalaxy]

Found a big bug in GO.

I selected an audio driver (can't remember which one!) for GO to use, and it instantly crashed, with a message from microsoft visual C++ Runtime library saying "This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way, please contact the application's support team for more information"

It then CTDed. When I opened it again, it instantly crashed in the same way. I reinstalled. Same happened. Installed the 32 bit version. Same again.

I guess it's trying to access a driver that it dosn't like - and does this on startup because it's in the saved settings. But this causes it to crash. Is there anyway to change the driver settings without opening the program?

FWIW GO 0.2 is working fine still.

in another field entirely, the 64 bit verison of 0.3 gives me a much worse sound quality than 0.2 - with strange cracking & distortion when it's got lots of stops out. It does this without the bars showing how hard it's working being on full or anywhere near full. 0.2 plays a lot smoother. i'll try and test the 32 bit version when I've solved the problem above!

Tom

Thanks!

 

[e9925248]

Found a big bug in GO.

I selected an audio driver (can't remember which one!) for GO to use, and it instantly crashed, with a message from microsoft visual C++ Runtime library saying "This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way, please contact the application's support team for more information"

It then CTDed. When I opened it again, it instantly crashed in the same way. I reinstalled. Same happened. Installed the 32 bit version. Same again.

I guess it's trying to access a driver that it dosn't like - and does this on startup because it's in the saved settings. But this causes it to crash. Is there anyway to change the driver settings without opening the program?

Start regedit, navigate to HKEY_Current_User and then Software\Our Organ\ GrandOrgue \ Devices and delete the DefaultSound setting.

The only difference between 32 and 64 bit GO should be, that the 64 bit version is not limited up to 2-3 GB.

GO 0.2 uses a different location for its settings.

in another field entirely, the 64 bit verison of 0.3 gives me a much worse sound quality than 0.2 - with strange cracking & distortion when it's got lots of stops out. It does this without the bars showing how hard it's working being on full or anywhere near full. 0.2 plays a lot smoother. i'll try and test the 32 bit version when I've solved the problem above!

Recommendations:
* Turn lossless compression off.
* Increase latency setting for RtAudio based backends:
Driver names starting with DirectSound: are the RtAudio drivers. Depending on the latency, they process a block 256, 512 or 1024 frames at once.
[The portaudio code is currently fixed at blocks of 256 frames]
Using multiple threads means, that all threads must be synchronized for every block. Lowering the number of threads can reduce this overhead.

 

[e9925248]

Ok, testing completed. I can confirm that GO dosn't listen on ANY channels if the "any channel" option is selected. Here is how I tested:

Please note, that GO does not only consider channels but also further differentiate between MIDI sources [One program can create multiple MIDI sources].

Is the "Device setting" in the MIDI dialog to "Any device" or to a specific MIDI source?

(If you export the settings, I can look at them)

Another bit of strange behaviour - the SW sub octave activates without any message to activate it.

Elements can have shortcut key defined.

Are you sure, that GO has not generated based on the global settings a Midi Event to listen for and the you sent a matching message?

 

[7thGalaxy]

I only have one Midi input, so I don't think that it's going to be a problem with multiple inputs. It seems to be sibelius possibly sending controller messages unasked for, for example at a manual change.

The device setting specifies loopbe, which is the only input.

I've increased the latency to 100 - still a slight click, on all of the sound drivers, which I don't get at all in GO 0.2 with the same computer. Same problem on the 32 bit version.