Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 26

Thread: "Old Wave" classical music

  1. #1
    Rear Admiral Appassionata John Watt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Welland, Ontario, Canada, mid Niagara Peninsula, between Great Lakes Erie and Ontario
    Posts
    2,493
    Post Thanks / Like

    "Old Wave" classical music

    Yes, this is a new genre of music, "Old Wave" classical. I'm sure everyone has heard of "New Wave" and "New Age". The technological and instrumental saturation of our times actually has created a new genre of music, for senior musicians. I'm not typing Master musicians, a category of professionalism, I'm typing "Old" as in being old is part of the equation.

    I've only got sixteen minutes left on this computer before this business closes, so even if I wanted to I couldn't keep typing about this new category of musical expression. I'm hoping others will be doing some of what I've got together already, and understand, adding comments to make this thread express it wider, rather than having me as a downward scroll.

    What's the basic tenet of "Old Age" music. First, it means you can actually play an instrument. You can't just sample or hire others. You have to be a musician. Reading and writing can be optional, it is for me. There has to be professional instruments and equipment involved, what musicians can amass over the years, ranging from 9-volt battery driven units, through analog, getting into the digital.

    You have to be a stage performer already. You can't be nervous or concentrating on yourself, because "Old Age" musicians are used to that. I'm not typing bandleader or mike personality, just the ability to get up in front of listeners and carry the event yourself, with other musicians or yourself.

    Being able to enter a venue when all you have to do is carry your instrument or lift the lid on the piano, and carry the event yourself or with others, getting paid, are other "Old Age" parameters. Doing it off the top of your head is the most important one. As an experienced stage player, having the music in your hear't and he'ad, sorry for the Scottish phonetic resonance, is what makes you in demand. Being called a wild pianist, for example, is better than others asking if you know this song because they want to sing along.

    The gig defines "Old Age", because it is a gig. This doesn't mean youngsters can't get into it, to enjoy the sheer beauty and drama of your output, it's just the opposite of what rock bands do with all the equipment and volume. For an old age musician, who was out there before big rigs hit, it's something that's so generic and venue pre-equipped you're using it, whether you crank it up or not.

    Too bad I've only got five minutes left. I'm going to click submit, but I can't even stick around to see if anyone types next. And as a new age musician has to say, as his adoring throng of listeners surrounds him as he gets ready to leave, please, don't worry, I've been booked again. And where is the buffet?

  2. Likes White Knight liked this post
  3. #2
    Chief assistant to the assistant chief JHC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Nu Zeln
    Posts
    4,956
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    3
    As usual John I have not the faintest idea what you are after, do you want to solicit posts from :

    musicians that have performed on stage solo or with others in a professional aka (paid) sense, on acoustic instruments (Old Wave) and/or digital that you also class (Old Wave)??? Am I on the right track?? I have the qualifications but don’t know what to do with them. aha aha do you want anecdotes?

     

     

     
    Btw I see “White Knight” likes your thread but what he actually likes is not clear
    <oo>

    I almost forgot I more than qualify for the old bit
    Last edited by JHC; Nov-30-2011 at 08:04.
    I don’t want a signature any more

  4. #3
    Duckmeister teddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    8,955
    Post Thanks / Like
    I believe I understand what you mean John

    teddy

  5. #4
    Chief assistant to the assistant chief JHC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Nu Zeln
    Posts
    4,956
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy View Post
    I believe I understand what you mean John

    teddy
    Well don't keep it to yourself teddy explain! am I way off the mark?
    I don’t want a signature any more

  6. #5
    Spectral Warrior con passion White Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,911
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1
    Colin, What I like about this post--and about JW in general--is the knowledge and passion he always brings to this subject. And yes, being 60 years old, I also qualify for his definition, though--unlike the both of you--I am not a musician.
    Whatever floats your boat May your reach always exceed your grasp

  7. #6
    Chief assistant to the assistant chief JHC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Nu Zeln
    Posts
    4,956
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    3
    I must be as thick as two short planks because I can't figure out what he is after perhaps you can enlighten me? Please
    Just off subject for one moment [Do US Citizens retire at 60?]
    I don’t want a signature any more

  8. #7
    Spectral Warrior con passion White Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,911
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1
    Colin, It all depends on what field the employee is in, and whether it's in civil service {which is usually a 20 or 25 year and out} or in the private sector. So it greatly varies.
    Getting back to John Watt, I'm sure that if you were to ask him directly he'd be glad to answer you. I think what he is getting at is that the "old school" musicians have more skills, passion and abilities than do the current so called "New Age" lot. Also, that the older group don't have to rely as much on special effects and various gadgets to produce good music as does this younger generation of musicians. At least that's some of what I gleaned from what JW was posting about, but--as always--I could be dead wrong; not the first time, and it certainly won't be the last, not by a long shot!
    Whatever floats your boat May your reach always exceed your grasp

  9. #8
    Chief assistant to the assistant chief JHC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Nu Zeln
    Posts
    4,956
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    3
    Thanks Steve, I did post asking John if I had interpreted correctly so will wait for his reply. Regarding retirement [some people have it made eh]
    I don’t want a signature any more

  10. #9
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    10,538
    Post Thanks / Like
    The average age for pension in Russia is 55 for the ladies and 60 for the men.

    Back on topic: "Old Wave Music" - What in the world will they think of next?.............
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  11. Likes White Knight liked this post
  12. #10
    Chief assistant to the assistant chief JHC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Nu Zeln
    Posts
    4,956
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    3
    It's 65 here men and women, unless you happen to be a politician then it is after serving 3 terms = 9 years total, then you and your other half qualify for 90% of all air travel free this and free that + an extremely generous pension which is equal to 80 - 90% of you average yearly salary + the same pension that the rest of us get at 65. now who determines the salary have a guess???
    Back on topic "waiting for JW to post"
    I don’t want a signature any more

  13. Likes White Knight liked this post
  14. #11
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    10,538
    Post Thanks / Like
    "Waiting for JW to post", Hmmm - Did you know that JW also means Johnnie Walker? - Maybe our brother from Canada is enjoying some of that drink now........Or has been for the past 72 hours........
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  15. #12
    Spectral Warrior con passion White Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,911
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Corno Dolce View Post
    The average age for pension in Russia is 55 for the ladies and 60 for the men.

    Back on topic: "Old Wave Music" - What in the world will they think of next?.............
    CD, Those aren't bad averages at all!
    Whatever floats your boat May your reach always exceed your grasp

  16. #13
    Rear Admiral Appassionata John Watt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Welland, Ontario, Canada, mid Niagara Peninsula, between Great Lakes Erie and Ontario
    Posts
    2,493
    Post Thanks / Like
    Oh boy! I'm back as soon as possible, and wasn't expecting this much interest. And I'm not trying to "solicit posts", if that brings a whiff of fishing or trolling. I'm currently arranging a video performance to demonstrate an "old age" performance.

    When jazz musicians were big bands, you have to acknowledge the saying that redefined an end of a musical era, when it became "if it ain't got that swing, it don't mean a thing". So an old age musician would not only reference old big band, but have the swing aspect too. But what was that swing, for most of the audience. Riding that cymbal, from a blues perspective, a galloping beat. Now, for modern media listeners, if it doesn't have that swing, it's not authentic. For many north americans, Buddy Riches continuous and always soloing appearances represented the drumming comprehension of that, not a bad source.

    But that's still the previous millennium. Funk came along, raggaefication is still proliferating, Bob Marley, the roots, still playing, that style alive on radio and mass entertainment. And as far as modern social intercourse goes, without trying to engender past racist attitudes, I haven't heard anyone talking about playing like a black person in this new millennium. Dat's 'bout de club... doin'... yeah doin' it, and that's just phonetics, coming offa rap, getting into hip-hop featuring rap, mostly computer sampled.

    So an old age musician wouldn't be down on that, using a drum machine, maybe, better than a metronome, building your own beat as a percussion solo to start, having pre-programmed rhythms, simple enough to use for a timing thrust, or wrapped around a defined song arrangement. But the ideal old age musician wouldn't need all that, just using it if you want, what's just out all around anyway.

    But the main requirement for an old age musician would be the ability to leave all that, just wanting to get it on with your instrument, to share your frustration at what the news of the world, what global reality we all are more than ever beginning to realize for all mankind, and the creatures forced to live nocturnal habits, afraid of being in the sight of humans.

    What's my old age perspective here, that those from not here might be lacking? Professor Marshall McCluhan, who first said and published the concept of "global village", and "the media is the message", was a professor in Toronto, where I lived sometimes. His ideas are now more globally understood because we are doing his predictions, using computers this way before the general public had them.

    And what's my blues roots, being North American, including that tribal heartbeat, equal to imported slave input? Cancer, the new black and blues. The Niagara Peninsula has the highest per capita cancer rate in Ontario. My mother, her two sisters, her brother, my friend whose daughter went in to see her doctor because she wasn't feeling good, and two months later dying from fast acting cancer. That's not as bad as the blues from Bopal, Chernobyl, and now Japan.

    Corno Dolce might be able to deliver a Master Class when it comes to classical strings and everything instrumental, but instead of the past tradition of gut strings being where it's at, it's now whales and dolphins beaching themselves, audiences appreciating the enviromental messages more and more, especially if they have their pets with them, a more public exhibition than ever before, even to the wearing of dogs as accessories. How can that be reflected onstage, without making marine mammal sounds as part of the act? I'm thinking of hanging an eagle feather on my headstock, for small stages.

    You might think any further advancement of music would require more musicianship, even if it's just a foreign influence because you could afford the trip. But that's never going to be new again, most listeners able to listen online any time anywhere around the world, usually programming or inputting themselves. So an old age musician who can rely on his own energies to enrapt an audience, is getting rarer and rarer. And considering the genre categories that entrap the public into specific venues with specific imagery, almost all artificially created, even a lone player who is even semi-feeling, is going to find it easy to interest his audience.

    And what audiences are there out there more than ever, seniors, living longer, having more disposable income, or to be considered a captive audience, all in chairs, real or electric, waiting for someone to come in. Sure, as they say to this old age player, it's nice to see someone sing and plays songs and spread the good times around, but a player with passion, for people starving for passion, needing to relive that passion, they're waiting. This is where keyboardists have an advantage over other players, simply walking into a venue and sitting down. If you walk, any pay is all in your pocket.

    Back to upgrading musicianship to be part of this new movement, old age music. What? Is that what all this tech is about, real musicianship? Especially after going through the "sex and drugs and rock and roll" of the previous generations? Imagine, instead of using a left hand reminiscent of, say Corno Dolce on a good night, you simply beat out an octave that represents a chord, like a driving rock, blues, mild new wave or new age beat, but riff out with your right hand like a jazz sax, trumpet, even a Jimi Hendrix multiple note moving thing, concentrating on just riffing out, working off what tune you know, easier than a fully developed classical player. Not that I'm encouraging lesser musicianship, but an old age player can get into it sooner than having to develop as a fully blown classical virtuoso. And that driving beat is easy to get off on, jamming with your polar hand.

    And if it's an electric keyboard, you don't have to only sound like a piano all the time, catching that trumpet and violin sound, whatever, actually using technology to expand your sound and performance. So even if you're not a wild and continuous right hand jammer, just changing setting will make you sound new all over again. Yes, leaning on technology, but as an old age player you are simply relying onl yourself, if solo, not other musicians, especially if it has to be such a presentation that the venue and audience determine your timing more than you. And that's the nice part about being an old age musician, it is the information age, people want to meet who they're listening to, and as a self-contained entity you are able to talk and mingle with your in the same room audience, not separated by the stage and security.

    If this looks like I'm liking downsizing, hey, that's just what's going on all around me. Why let the music suffer for it? Play what you want to play. If they don't ask you back, who cares? You're going to be playing what you want to play anyway, as an old age musician, not having to think retired or semi-retired, but hopefully, comfortable enough to play without having to pander to venues or audiences.

    And what's another aspect of modern life, considering how much is not just graphics because everyone's used to animated? The font. You should look good, being the artist. You should have an easel with your introduction at the door. Something for people to take, so they can phone or email for more. Going from foyer or parlour performances to personal settings would be a lifestyle choice for some, but for the old age musician it would represent a chance to be more personal, and catch some extra pay through lessons, even one lesson, another player wanting to learn some specific technique, or for rock musicians, a part they can't figure out, or an effect that won't give them that sound.

    A phase rock bands went through, widely attributed to the first "Chicago" album, was using one song to get into a percussion thing. That lasted a long time, most good rock bands still doing that, if not sounding tribal. An old age player will encourage the audience to play along, maybe providing Dollar Store drums for everyone, or using a small tambourine, other things, for interested audience members. Even those in wheelchairs can tap along. That's if you like audience participation. I don't see crowd surfing as an old age stage activity, unless I was jumping off and landing on a pile of Grace Kelly posters.

    And as far as looking for work in old age homes, I'm not going to get into the medication aspect of the environment, or the long histories of drug abuse most of the public associate, maybe now used to associate, with musicians, especially rock and jazz, classical seen as genteel spirits imbibing. That makes me a more strident old age player. My lobby sign, inspired by the first album liner notes written by Jimi Hendrix, will show: WARNING! Please be forewarned: Pace-makers must be signed it at the desk. Yeah, if I'm getting into it, if the spirit of music is ever going to keep flowing through me, I don't want no electrical interference.

    "Seen Your Citizens", a travelling old age band, maybe the first to gather as a group and tour, former road musicians who have already been there, probably forgetting most of it themselves, are now returning to favorite cities to play in daylight venues, for those who remember them and missed them the most.

    And I type this in all sincerity, not to disaparage the wonderful music we all know from the past, but leaving the printed notes behind, and just trying to give it a blast.

    Yes, I do have more to say, inspiring myself. And I'm getting paid, ooh, what else? First time on piano, and I was asked.
    I am an old age musician. Please wait for "Sent A Mental Signs" for your next "Fount of Font" fun fest, featuring the "Earl of Url".

    Riff me off, you more grandiose and elegant potential old age musicians. Tickle some real ivory for me. And I'm like Nicolo Paganini. If I have to drag an old home entertainment organ sitting curbside for pre-arranged disposal, back up the driveway to plug it in and start terrorizing a neighbourhood, I will.

  17. #14
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    10,538
    Post Thanks / Like
    Br. JW,

    Hear, hear - What a most fascinating homily you share - It'll take me awhile to fully understand the concepts you bring to the fore - You spakest about "tribal heartbeat" - Ok, do share what that means, beyond the usual assumptions of what is and what isn't "North American Tribal" and what it means for your musicianship. You have shared much in your latest post - Now, I'm sure you can take all those concepts and refine them so that we "grandiose and elegant potential old age musicians" will have a clue. Seriously, you have so much energy and philosophical insight that tolerates a systematizing. It'll be fascinating what the end product will be - I, for one, wish to know. Ok?

    On another thread I came out of the closet: I'm just a hick(read RED-NECK) from fly-over country, who barely caught the train for parts unknown, and was dragged behind THAT train half-way around the world before it came to a complete and FINAL stop.
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  18. #15
    Chief assistant to the assistant chief JHC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Nu Zeln
    Posts
    4,956
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    3
    Crikey John Watts you are very extravagant with words I will have to copy and paste as I suffer from ADS = attention deficit syndrome, it may take me a day or two. btw you are not related to Martin are you?
    I don’t want a signature any more

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 3
    Last Post: Sep-12-2010, 01:27
  2. Classical Piece from the scene in "The Aviator"
    By deus ex machina in forum Classical Music Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: May-28-2008, 22:10
  3. "Mastering" of classical music
    By Rune Vejby in forum Composers & Musicians Connection
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Jan-19-2008, 22:49
  4. "A case for classical music - old & new"
    By ArtsWom in forum Classical Music Forum
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: Jun-27-2007, 10:07
  5. Best "classical" music recordings
    By cbrain in forum Classical Music Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Apr-01-2007, 14:06

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •