GO for Windows 32/64

[JayR]

I tried the 966 no SSE3 version because I have an older Pentium 4 with 2.5 GB RAM. As soon as all of the samples loaded, I received the following error...

Memory pool is full 1488191488 of 1488191488 used.

All samples sounded warbled and unplayable. I was able to use 858 no SSE3. It also had pool warnings, but the sound was fine.

I am submitting these comments for the sake of evaluation. I really appreciate all the hard work you guys have been putting into this software.

Thank You,
Jay

 

[Diode]

Hi JayR and GO developers,

I too am using 966 no SSE on a Pentium 4 with 1.5GB. I also get the Memory pool is full error when loading a large sample set like Burea extended, but if I treat this as a non-fatal error and dismiss it the organ sounds great. I have not noticed any warbling effects here.


I too greatly appreciate the hard work the developers have put into GO.

Regards,
Diode

 

[JayR]

Diode,

Would you please list your audio settings for me? That may help with the warbling I was experiencing.

Thank You,
Jay

 

[Diode]

Hi Jay,

My GO audio settings are:

-----------------------------------------Midi Devices: kX Uart SB0222 10K1 [b800] 9
Options: Active Polyphony management = yes
Compress Cache = yes
Release sample scaling = yes
Randomix pipe speaking = yes
Intepolation: Polyphase
Concurrency Level: 0
Release Concurrency Level: 1
Recorder WAV format: IEEE Float
Lossless compression = yes
Load stereo samples in: Stereo
Sample Size: 16 bits
Loop Loading : All loops
Attack Loading: All
Release Loading: All
Sound Output
Sample Rate: 44100
Samples per buffer: 1024
Audio output
Device: ASIO (PA) JackRouter (23 ms)
Channel 1 Default audio group - left: 0.000000 dB
Channel 2 Default audio group - right: 0.000000 dB
Audio Groups : Default audio group
______________________________
... which I believe are defaults set during GO installation.

I use a basic SB Live soundcard but with KX drivers (Creative's drivers had very poor intermodulation distortion performance).
I also use JackRouter and Freeverb3 add reverb.

Re your poor audio performance, if (like me) you don't have a PC dedicated to GO - I assume that you would have ruled out disruptions caused by other cpu-intensive processes running on the same PC. The only time I have noticed GO audio problems was when I forgot to I forgot to kill a background internet download running at the same time as a GO practice session.

Regards.
Diode

 

[Ghekorg7 (Ret)]

Hi Diode,
Hi JR
This is why I like this forum, helping each-other and contribute.

Dedicated GO pc.
Mmmm YES, Diode you got a point here. Downloading in the background while GO (or other music apps) is running can cause cracks ect. Even my 64bit T4400 Intel dual core at 2.2GHz (now-days old - 2009 model) gets crazy when this happens.
Many times I'm thinkin' to have a pc with GO, Reaper, VST FX and/or Jack/reverb and nothing else with no Internet at all.
And updating the above apps maybe easy with a USB stick, windows though ? It will be a very "closed" system.

So, when in GO and any other music essay, I always close my Internet connection, also I open the task manager and "kill" (as you say) many other apps running, like Dropbox for example and Power ISO and many others which consuming precious ram and load CPU.

 

[JayR]

Diode,

Thanks for listing your audio settings. I know they are not all default in every situation as I remember that Lossless Compression was not enabled after installing 966.

As far as my PC goes, it is dedicated to GO. It is not connected to the Internet or any other networks; and there are no other programs running. It does not even have antivirus.

I will set my audio settings to match yours and let you know if it works.

Thanks Again!!!
Jay

 

[e9925248]

Intepolation: Polyphase
Lossless compression = yes
Concurrency Level: 0
Release Concurrency Level: 1
Samples per buffer: 1024

My recommendations:
* Interpolation = Linear uses less CPU [be aware, that polyphase is only in effect, if lossless compression is off]
* lossless compression requires more CPU
* use a concurrency setting up to the core count to take advantage of additional cores
* use a high samples per buffer setting
* try a different sound card entry

 

[JayR]

My issue with 966 was with the default Sound Card Option. It defaulted to MME PA (PC Sound Card Type - 23ms Latency). I switched to DirectSound (PC Sound Card Type - 46ms Latency) and now the sound is GREAT!!! It may have only been the latency as I have noticed with new versions of GO I have had to up the latency past 38ms.

Thanks for you help!!!

Now... If we can only resolve that last memory pool allocation issue...

 

[Ghekorg7 (Ret)]

Hi,

Jay, here with 966 I have no more Memory pool allocation failures. Only that fire-cracks like annoying sound every one minute or so when using ReaRouteAsio or Jack.

But, after "e"'s last post I see I have done wrong settings on Interpolation !!! I set polyphase with Lossless compression ON !!!! ooops. I will go to change it and find out what's gonna happen. I hope this is the answer...

Jay, why not Asio4All ? You need multi audio there ?

 

[JayR]

I am trying to keep things as simple as possible. My GO PC is the sound generator for a real pipe organ console. I go from the console, to the PC, to a sound system. It works great! I have not done any experimentation beyond that. I'm trying to learn how to play organ... without having much background in piano. It's quite a challenge, especially since I don't have a whole lot of spare time.

 

[Ghekorg7 (Ret)]

My friend Jay I know your system....
Just thinking, since you want to practice, Asio4all is the best choice as you can go down to 10~8ms latency (GO readings) in your OS (here GO3 5ms loaded set 24/48000 128buffers).
No complication at all. Seconds to download, seconds to install (in your case add the time from a USB stick or else). Then GO just see it and you select it as audio.

 

[JayR]

I was not at all familiar with Asio4all. So I had no idea in how it would benefit me in my current GO setup. As far as I can tell, Asio4all would benefit me by putting in a layer between my sound card and GO that would make future GO software upgrades more standardized. I will look into it further. Thanks!!!

Jay

 

[e9925248]

Asio4all is the best choice as you can go down to 10~8ms latency (GO readings) in your OS (here GO3 5ms loaded set 24/48000 128buffers).

You can't trust the latency number reported by GO - some backend implementations just print the playback time of the sound buffer while other take care of various introduced delays. The PA backends, I checked, seem to take more delays into account.

RtAudio ASIO is in my option displaying too low values: the absolute minimum latency of GO is two times the playback time of sampler per buffer. So for eg. 512 @ 44.1kHz anything below 23.2ms is incorrect.

Is there really any noticeable difference between a sound card and a sound card wrapped via ASIO4ALL using the ASIO backend?
It would be interessting to know, if displaying random number as latency would change the picture.

I have put a new version online (As usual, no ASIO but all other backends):
http://sourceforge.net/projects/e9925248.u/files/GrandOrgue/

The difference to the version of JLD is minimal. The MIDI matching provides more options (eg. for 2nd touch) and adding multiple sound interfaces is not blocked (but marked as not supported).

The biggest difference is a block size of 64.

 

[Ghekorg7 (Ret)]

Thanks for the valuable info "e"

I cannot send you a log, but my fingers and ears don't fool me. I mean, when using Asio4All the latency on my fingers (on win7 OS) is not existent at 128 to 256max settings at 24/48000. Also the sound is crystal clear and bright, like removing a soft shield when come from Directsound for example.

Many thanks for your new version, I'll go now to get it and will try to test, but in fear, as the last two were a mess here as you recall

 

[e9925248]

I cannot send you a log, but my fingers and ears don't fool me. I mean, when using Asio4All the latency on my fingers (on win7 OS) is not existent at 128 to 256max settings at 24/48000. Also the sound is crystal clear and bright, like removing a soft shield when come from Directsound for example.

The sound data generated by GO is equal for all audio backends - I was not aware, that there are any sound differences.

What audio backends are affected? PA includes support for dither - could that be the reason?

Many thanks for your new version, I'll go now to get it and will try to test, but in fear, as the last two were a mess here as you recall

My versions are the experimental versions

 

[Ghekorg7 (Ret)]

Hi "e" I know your versions are experimental and you also may know that I'm not afraid to explore as far as its is possible and beyond, no matter the consequances LoL

Sound. Can't help you more (yet) , my ears give me that impression, with any app in my system. For example UVI workstation 2.2 x64 has WASAPI support. When using Asio4All the sound is better !! Can't explain. Kontakt 5 too. from DS to Asio there's a difference in the quality of sound (not the latency). Probably DS on win7 is inferior from the one on XP ? (as many times I read about on the web).

Also, as I love my Reaper 4 and love to do recordings, here too Asio4all rules.

Must re-examine my crack sound issues with Rearoute and Jack here to see what's happening.

But, so far, commit 966 x64, standalone with Asio4all at 128/48000, gives me MUCH pleasure and many happy playing hours. For this I'm greatfull to all of you involved on !!

 

[e9925248]

Sound. Can't help you more (yet) , my ears give me that impression, with any app in my system. For example UVI workstation 2.2 x64 has WASAPI support. When using Asio4All the sound is better !! Can't explain. Kontakt 5 too. from DS to Asio there's a difference in the quality of sound (not the latency). Probably DS on win7 is inferior from the one on XP ? (as many times I read about on the web).

So it is not GO related (Some PA backends use dither and I worry, that this cause the sound issues)?

If it affects all applications, could it be related to the Windows mixer?

 

[L.Palo]

Hi!

If I remember a discussion on the Audacity forum correctly, I think that Windows with PA cannot record true 24 bit audio and it's possible that it cannot play back audio truly at 24 bit either, don't know about that. If that's the case Martins suspection of dithering "noise" could be true. See http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Release_Notes_2.0.0#Playback_and_Recording - "(Windows) Recording at 24-bit quality or higher isn't possible even with devices that support it due to current limitations in PortAudio.".

The most common suggestion for those who really want 24 bit recording (with PA) seems to be "Use Linux"...

Kind regards

Lars P

 

[e9925248]

If I remember a discussion on the Audacity forum correctly, I think that Windows with PA cannot record true 24 bit audio and it's possible that it cannot play back audio truly at 24 bit either, don't know about that. If that's the case Martins suspection of dithering "noise" could be true. See http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Release_Notes_2.0.0#Playback_and_Recording - "(Windows) Recording at 24-bit quality or higher isn't possible even with devices that support it due to current limitations in PortAudio.".

The supported bit sizes depend on the selected audio backend.
DSound officially is only specified for 16 bit.
On the other hand, WASAPI include lots of code for handling different bit sizes.

 

[Ghekorg7 (Ret)]

Hmmm, if DS is officialy for 16bit only, then maybe settings for Asio4All at 24/48000 give a better sound quality ?

But, if I remember right, I did some time ago a change , ie set my Realtek card at 16/44100 and all apps at the same and Asio4all at 16/44100/128buffers and still the sound was better. Is it possible that better latency performance affects also sound quality ? Dunno, just asking....

Also, as I used some Jiri's ranks for experiments (IMHO the best pipe organ samples so far...) I found out that 24/48000 is practicaly noiseless and indeed (as Jiri suggests) turning to 16/44100 some noticeable noise was on, especially when pipe sound is fading (releases). Both rates with Asio4all x64 (no PA) and GO 966 x64.

@Lars, using Reaper 4 x64 and Asio4all at 24/48000 I'm doing super recordings on windows7. The result files (wav) reading almost 24bit.