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Thread: very intense music from Liverpool Cathedral....

  1. #1
    Commander, Assistant Conductor
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    very intense music from Liverpool Cathedral....

    I stumbled upon this clip on youtube.

    Type "organ toccata 7 liverpool cathedral organ" in the search box.

    This could cause speaker damage, so be careful. The 64' Resultant was used in this piece. The Trompette Militaire is awesome in this.

    ps: cathedrsl is typewriter language for cathedral

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    Commodore con Forza GoneBaroque's Avatar
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    Thank you sv. Not only intense but I found it quite attractive. It must be an experience to hear the 64' Resultant in the Cathedral. You sent me to my archives to find a two disk LP album which was recorded in 1979 with Noel Rawsthorne at Liverpool playing Bach and Franck. The 64 is of course used. The recording is described as having an Ultra-Wide Dynamic Range which i surely has. Each side of the two disks contains less that 15 minutes of music. short value but spectacular sound through my JBLs. And the video you sent sounded great on my headphones. I kept the volume down to compensate for the mating call of the dragons in the crypt. I downloaded the score and see it was written by Matt Milne.

    And my computer is not very good at spelling either.
    The only reason for time is to prevent everything from happening at once - Albert Einstein

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    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    I'm afraid that the recorded instrument is not the Liverpool Anglican Cathedral by Willis - I perceive the Hammerwood Park electrobeast with 64' and 128' reed stops - There is so much "audio compression" so readily apparent. The 64' resultant on the Willis is more like a "rolling purr".

    But the improv is nice although...
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

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    Thanks for the tip, Admiral (ouch).
    Come to think of it. The 64' sounded more like the electronic 64' Bombarde Basse at Washington Cathedral, than would be produced by two flues at 32' and 21 1/3'. Sometimes excitement has a way of distorting one's judgement. Plus, in the beginning, you hear what sounds like the Positive. The Willis doesn't have any chiff that I know of.

    Next time I email Ian Tracey, I'll see what he thinks of the clip. After playing at LivCath for over 20 years, he should be able to point out a lot of differences.

  5. #5
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    The acoustic at LivCath is just so different than any other - probably owing to the Sandstone from which it is built.
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

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    Captain of Water Music pcnd5584's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corno Dolce View Post
    I'm afraid that the recorded instrument is not the Liverpool Anglican Cathedral by Willis ... The 64' resultant on the Willis is more like a "rolling purr".

    ...
    Not in the building. The 'rolling purr' is produced by one of ther three 32ft. flues - the best of these, to my ears, is the Contra Violone (Metal). The Resultant Bass (64ft.) is a distinctly odd sound, from the Central Space. One can feel the strong vibrations, but the effect (used underneath the most etherial of the three undulating ranks which this organ possesses) was actually not particularly pleasant. It is, after all, an acoustic stop - hence the name.
    Last edited by pcnd5584; Mar-11-2012 at 00:10.
    Pierre Cochereau rocked, man.

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    Captain of Water Music pcnd5584's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilingvox View Post
    Thanks for the tip, Admiral (ouch).
    Come to think of it. The 64' sounded more like the electronic 64' Bombarde Basse at Washington Cathedral, than would be produced by two flues at 32' and 21 1/3'. Sometimes excitement has a way of distorting one's judgement. Plus, in the beginning, you hear what sounds like the Positive. The Willis doesn't have any chiff that I know of.
    Yes, it does. This Positif section was added around 1960, by Willis:


    Gedact
    8
    Spitz Principal 4

    Nasat 2 2/3
    Coppel
    2



    Terz
    1 3/5

    Spitzflote 1
    Cymbel III 29.33.36


    It replaced an unenclosed family of Dulcianas - which were (arguably) somewhat less useful on this instrument.
    Last edited by pcnd5584; Mar-11-2012 at 00:11.
    Pierre Cochereau rocked, man.

  8. #8
    Captain of Water Music pcnd5584's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corno Dolce View Post
    The acoustic at LivCath is just so different than any other - probably owing to the Sandstone from which it is built.
    I think that you are correct. Due to the porous nature of the sandstone, this building is surprisingly lacking in resonance, considering its great size. Gloucester Cathedral (at eight seconds, on releasing a chord played on the tutti) is infinitely superior for organ and choral sound.
    Pierre Cochereau rocked, man.

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    Administrator Krummhorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilingvox View Post
    ps: cathedrsl is typewriter language for cathedral
    We corrected the inadvertent typo ... my keyboard does the same thing at times, too. :

    Quote Originally Posted by Corno Dolce View Post
    I'm afraid that the recorded instrument is not the Liverpool Anglican Cathedral by Willis - I perceive the Hammerwood Park electrobeast with 64' and 128' reed stops - There is so much "audio compression" so readily apparent. The 64' resultant on the Willis is more like a "rolling purr".
    Correct ... the video title reads: The 7th organ toccata. Inspired by the beautiful organ at the Liverpool Anglican Cathedral. (emphasis mine)

    But the improv is nice although...
    Indeed it is ... would be nice to hear this actually played on the Willis itself or even with it played on the Wimborne Minster organ ...
    (nice to see you here again, pcnd

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    Vice Admiral Virtuoso Dorsetmike's Avatar
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    Indeed it is ... would be nice to hear this actually played on the Willis itself or even with it played on the Wimborne Minster organ ...
    Lars, the lady in the shop at Wimborne may not appreciate it
    Cheers MIKE.

    How many roads must a man walk down ... ... before he admits he's lost?

  11. #11
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Hi pcnd - Thanks for your guidance in re to Liverpool.
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  12. #12
    Administrator Krummhorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorsetmike View Post
    Lars, the lady in the shop at Wimborne may not appreciate it
    Wonder if she is still there? I must say, it was a "first" for me - maybe she was RC ...
    Kh ~~.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcnd5584 View Post
    Yes, it does. This Positif section was added around 1960, by Willis:


    Gedact
    8
    Spitz Principal 4

    Nasat 2 2/3
    Coppel
    2



    Terz
    1 3/5

    Spitzflote 1
    Cymbel III 29.33.36


    It replaced an unenclosed family of Dulcianas - which were (arguably) somewhat less useful on this instrument.
    I know about the Positif. In fact, imo, it fits very nicely with the rest of the instrument. I had mentioned that there was no chiff that I was aware of.

    I think what happened between '58 and '60 was that, by then, the soft Choir stops, replaced by the Positif, were no longer able to carry through the now much enlarged space. The Positif was voiced brighter and is higher-pitched, so it's more audible even from far away.

    A friend of mine remarked that, in such a large building, the Salicionals would fill the bill the Dulcianas would normally fill.

  14. #14
    Captain of Water Music pcnd5584's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corno Dolce View Post
    Hi pcnd - Thanks for your guidance in re to Liverpool.

    You are welcome.

    Sorry - I have only just seen your post....
    Pierre Cochereau rocked, man.

  15. #15
    Captain of Water Music pcnd5584's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilingvox View Post
    I know about the Positif. In fact, imo, it fits very nicely with the rest of the instrument. I had mentioned that there was no chiff that I was aware of.
    I know - but as far as I can recall, the Positive Gedact does have a certain amount of 'chiff' in the transient attack of its speech.

    Quote Originally Posted by smilingvox View Post
    I think what happened between '58 and '60 was that, by then, the soft Choir stops, replaced by the Positif, were no longer able to carry through the now much enlarged space. The Positif was voiced brighter and is higher-pitched, so it's more audible even from far away.
    I think that it was more a case of bending to the fashion of the times. Many organs in the UK sprouted Positive departments at this time - some more successful than others. Having heard a variety of very quiet string ranks used - including some under expression - it is interesting how well these stops project down the length of the building.
    Pierre Cochereau rocked, man.

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