GrandOrgue v0305 multi releases and more - free odf

[Ghekorg7 (Ret)]

Hi everyone,

I attach an .organ file for an imaginary Arp Schnitger 1720 village organ for testing and experimental purposes, as many friends ask about how to get multi releases function of GO workin', but also tracker, blower and other fx.

You will need the samples (and create the rank folders as on odf) of a very well known free, non time-ending, demo set, which are 24/48000, got pitch info embedded and all their release samples too.
Also you'll need to create a folder named Images, where you can copy the keys folder and icons from Pitea set (for moving keys) and a pic of your favourite Schnitger named background.png and re-size it to 1007x663 to fill all GO GUI.
Another folder named Sounds where the FX samples are in (more samples for tracker fx and blower noise and draw stop)

It is a 1m/p organ set more or less like the Marienkirche Silbermann, but with A.Schnitger style ranks.

If all set Ok the sound is terrific from GrandOrgue (Asio4all)
Everything OK..... except draw stop fx which as you'll find, are working on one stop and when closing it only. Sorry about that, it is still under research here to find the best way of doing it

You can disable all fx if you like and not be sure about, so the pipe samples will load with no errors and hear the releases working.

When all gathered in one folder this set will be around 2,5 to 3GB and GO with losseless compression and everything loaded will allocate about 1970MB. Good !

As you will see, the main idea is to set how much time the hands stay on the keyboard.
With the same idea works the multi attack function (not represented on this odf)

All fx are on an invisible second manual, each one on a stop (=one wav for each stop)

All temperaments offered by GO v0305 are working and is a charm to have them on !
See how the mixture is represented to get it work with them. The hard thing is to understand (or know..) exactly how the drops are going.

Try the "reverb" function, where you can hear the releases shorten and shorten from big Cathedral to chamber to small room. NICE !
I didn't add tremulant, nevertheless, Barton set has a great example on how this is done now (waveform, but not like on HW).

By no means this odf is complete, but is a good start point to the new world of GrandOrgue. I'm very excited about

I hope I added some more light into this
Best
Panos

 

[JLD]

Panos,

Good initiative.
Would be nice to create a software to help generate these files automatically
Browsed fast through the file. Are you sure you need multiple ...ReleaseCount... per pipe. One per pipe should be enough.
Also I found that some releases from the same producer have release files without cue markers which force to use Pipe...Release...CuePoint=0 to make sure GO starts to play at the beginning of the file

 

[Ghekorg7 (Ret)]

Hi JLD,

All needed !!
See : First is the main sample with the sustaining loop. This sample has two loops : one sustaining and the second called release loop. No CUE Marker !
If you create an odf with this only, GO3 can play those without cues and the result is a classic dry set !
Then there is the release sample for staccato play, thus 140ms for example , so the folder is : rel00140
then the second release sample for marcato play, thus 360 ~ 380 ms, so the folder is : rel00380
Last the classic release as we so far had in one file with the cue marker on, now separate, the folder is rel99999. Here I set -1, but it works if we type 99999 !

This way we got all possible articulations and enjoy super play !!!
I need to test what happens if I add a cue marker on the main sample (looped) just before it ends and from there to end I will fade out.

Also I so far cannot get the draw stop Fx properly. I think I will combine the on and off into one wav file , add silence in the middle and loop this silence. Then cue marker on out sample. this will work but will add the looped silence as long as it is open along with the rest of the stop fx and pipes ...... hmmm

Best
Panos

PS. So far I got the Mystic Organ software for the older versions, which was fast but cannot add ranks that do not beggin from pipe no 36 (C1) like sesquialtera, Cornet, Hautbois ect. So I learned to do it manually.... We need something like this but much better !!! Lars???

Ok, here's the dry version for all to evaluate (no cue Markers).

 

[JLD]

Panos,

Here is what I believe is the correct syntax.
I used it for the Caen and Zlata demos and it works well.

Pipe001=.\Praestant 8'\036-C.wav
Pipe001ReleaseCount=3
Pipe001Release001=.\Praestant 8'\rel00140\036-C.wav
Pipe001Release001MaxKeyPressTime=140
Pipe001Release002=.\Praestant 8'\rel00390\036-C.wav
Pipe001Release002MaxKeyPressTime=390
Pipe001Release003=.\Praestant 8'\rel99999\036-C.wav
Pipe001Release003MaxKeyPressTime=-1

Concerning cue, there were samples in Zlata that did not have proper cue data and they were not playing correctly. In fact the issue is that HW probably plays releases as complete files, starting from first sample. GO can also use regular wav files that also have loops in the release section as long as the cue is set. Therefore it is safer to add Pipe999Release999CuePoint=0 to HW organs to make sure GO plays the release starting from the first sample of the wav even when cue is not set or pointing to an incorrect place (Zlata case).

Then the syntax becomes:

Pipe001=.\Praestant 8'\036-C.wav
Pipe001ReleaseCount=3
Pipe001Release001=.\Praestant 8'\rel00140\036-C.wav
Pipe001Release001CuePoint=0
Pipe001Release001MaxKeyPressTime=140
Pipe001Release002=.\Praestant 8'\rel00390\036-C.wav
Pipe001Release002CuePoint=0
Pipe001Release002MaxKeyPressTime=390
Pipe001Release003=.\Praestant 8'\rel99999\036-C.wav
Pipe001Release003CuePoint=0
Pipe001Release003MaxKeyPressTime=-1

of course setting cue to 0 might not be required for all HW samples.

JL

 

[Larioant]

View attachment ODF.zipHere are two ODF to try.
Greetings Antonio.

 

[JLD]

Thanks Antonio.
Your ODF is like I was describing.
I see that you have adjusted the level of each stop. How did you proceed? Did you make adjustments to get a good volume balance or did you look into the original organ definition file?

 

[Ghekorg7 (Ret)]

Hi JLD,
Thanks for this
Typing just once per pipe the release count saves lines....... (Pipe001ReleaseCount=3 instead of 1 then 2 then 3 and so on..) I'll replace the syntax to Praestant 8' to see how it works here.
Thanks also for the ReleaseCuePoint=0, it's better to have it just in case and of course is the solution for problematic files.

In my examples the Praestant 16' rank has three wav files different from the other as there are some more cue Marks beside the two standard (loop, release loop). I did remove those from the three files as they sounded like the old type GO when no cues are in
Nevertheless these I managed to make them sound OK by just setting the "reverb" to minimum. Interesting ....
Now with cue point 0 maybe there is no need to edit wav files.

@ Antonio.
Hi,
Thanks for the odf I'll get them now, then test and post back

@ JLD
In my examples I also altered the attenuation of each rank in odf level as I wanted them to be there. This was done with open/adjust/reload procedure (time consuming...).
The better and easy way is to use the new functions directly from GO when the organ set is on, yes, but AFAIK this needs a new file to be created when save if one needs to share a set with others, or just save to appdata/Go ect of the resident OS.
I used this new function when testing our Pitea before release

And a tip to all, as I found during testing.
We can now combine many many ranks from any set and not messing around with sample editors ect.
We just need the two functions of the new GO : Temperaments and "reverb"

For example, one rank is tuned originally meantone and has 4sec tails, the other is Kirnberger II and has 2.8 to 3sec tails.
Provided that both ranks have in their wav files correct pitch info, we can turn our new set to Equal or one of the temperaments on offer in GO 0305 and set "reverb" to 2.8sec.
Now both these previously non matching ranks , can be played together in perfect harmony and with the same tails !!
In hard cases where the tails have wide difference, like dry ~ wet, GO v0305 gives the option of 350ms ie dry (very small room) environment. setting those ranks to this bottom limit we can then use an external VST reverb, as we did so far with Jack and/or RearouteAsio.
Add to this the 24/48000 loading option and more....

JLD and Martin and the rest of the band, you did miracles my friends and I'm deeply grateful !
A new path has been opened for many of the (so called) Virtual Organ scene users/set producers and GO users now have unlimited options of rank disposition to personal taste easier and better than before !!

Best
Panos

 

[Larioant]

JLD


Your ODF is like I was describing.


I "watched" the exchange of your email ourorgan-developers.
....


I see that you have adjusted the level of each stop.


I did it "by ear" as we say.
.......


or did look into the original organ definition file?


I have no original odf.
...........
Would be nice to create a software to help generate these files automatically
I did it. I created a DOS application, when I translate into English the language I offer the community.


@ Panos


It 's nice to see the GUI as well but with HW sample set "heavy" have to save ram.






I hope that Google translator has done his duty.


Greetings Antonio.

 

[Ghekorg7 (Ret)]

Ciao Antonio

Nice 3m/p !;-). Worked right here, though I expected that you'll had the tracker fx as well :-D :-D
The main folder is about 3.76GB and GO3 allocates about 2504MB. Good, plays super !!

One suggestion for our friends here : Since the original of this 3m/p organ is a demo set and has some ranks from each division, representing it as is in GO doesn't offer much as if we use it with the original app ;-)
So, I think and IMHO, that with the ranks at hand we can have a very very good 2m/p organ set of the Silesian school.
Here's how I see it :

Hauptwerk :

Principal 8'
Octava 4'
Quinta 3'
Superoctava 2'
Cimbel II
Gemshorn 8'
Gamba 16'

Positiv :

Flauto Amabile 8'
Flauta Minor (4)
Quintadena 8'
Superoctava 2'
Sedecima 1'

Pedal :

Subbass 16'
OctavBass 8'
Trompet Bass 8'

Hw/P, Pos/P, Pos/Hw, Tremulant to Pos

Also from these ranks, if we choose to have a 51note keyboard for each manual we can get a Quinta minor (1'1/3) a Tertz 1'3/5 and possibly a woodflute 2'.
With your odf I can save time now and create the above 2m/p example ;-)
I hope you can do the same with the Schnitger :-D :-D

I'm not complaining about ram, because :
1. GO3 has NO LOAD LIMIT (like 1.5GB...), so we can hear all extra beautiful releases in full with no notes cut ;-)
2. Doesn't write on Cache : Lets say we got 4GB memory in our HDD for a set (this demo 3m/p) and when loaded in original app we got 2GB more in cache(permanent in HDD) = 6GB, so we save memory in HDD
3. All demo set's samples load OK in my 4095MB ram lap with no problems : OK this is personal, but many of us messing around with VPOs got around 4GB ram anyway... I think
4. png and other icons do not load much.... the full samples at 24/48000 are..... he he he

I'm looking forward with your GO sets creation software !!!!! will be GREAT NEWS !

Keep it up High !
Panos

 

[JLD]

Looking forward playing this modified organ.

BTW, uploaded version 972 on SF.

Panos,
I don't remember if you are running under Linux, Windows 32 or 64.
Do you have messages when loading organs that fill most of the memory?
Recently the last remaining issues where:
- when loading large organs (Caen demo or other large composite organs) with G0 in 32 bits on Win 64 OS (resulting in a crash)
- when loading same large organ using GO in 64 bits, Windows is complaining with a memory low message which does not seem to affect anything but is annoying.

Do you have any of these issues?

Martin has introduced a fix that allows to force a max organ (memory) size to avoid the crashes but wonder if this problem is happening to other users.

JL

JL

 

[e9925248]

Typing just once per pipe the release count saves lines....... (Pipe001ReleaseCount=3 instead of 1 then 2 then 3 and so on..) I'll replace the syntax to Praestant 8' to see how it works here.

Thanks also for the ReleaseCuePoint=0, it's better to have it just in case and of course is the solution for problematic files.

In my examples I also altered the attenuation of each rank in odf level as I wanted them to be there. This was done with open/adjust/reload procedure (time consuming...).
The better and easy way is to use the new functions directly from GO when the organ set is on, yes, but AFAIK this needs a new file to be created when save if one needs to share a set with others, or just save to appdata/Go ect of the resident OS.

1) Please consider the behaviour of multiple Pipe001ReleaseCount settings as undefined.
2) ReleaseCuePoint can also specify a sample position (eg. if the sample has no/incorrect cue markers). It will override anything in the WAV file.
3) The best way is: Determine the setting with the tuning dialog and finally copy them into the ODF.

An additional note:
Every setting not documented in our ODF guide is an implementation detail, which may change without further notice (eg. specifing the volume - the ODF producer may only use Gain and/or AmplitudeLevel).
Further ODF changes/enhancements can be discussed on our mailing list.

 

[Ghekorg7 (Ret)]

Hi JL

I'm on windows 7 64bit. Acer Aspire 5738ZG Jan2009 model, Intel dual core T4400 at 2.2GHz, 4095MB ram, SATA HDD at 5200rpm, RealTek soundcard, set at 24bit 48000Hz with Asio4all v2.10 (had 2.11beta but got some issues). Digital out (5.1, dolby digital) analog out (stereo) and analog line input and analog mic input.

I also had a HP Q615 win7 pure 32bit AMD Athlon x2 64 2.2GHz 2048MB ram, where I had my jOrgan stuff, MyOrgan and GO which was 966 the last one installed, but motherboard ended... beyond repair.... so, no 32bit anymore.
On this 32bit lap GO 966 was working super, considering loading smaller sets (up to 1.6GB allocated tops), even the cracks present on my 64 bit when using Jack and/or RearouteAsio , were not there !!!

Now on your questions.
I still got commit 966 here (64bit) and I'm testing things but also enjoy playing with my custom 2m/p set up to 4GB heavy with all releases (4 sec) and FX.
This organ set allocates about 3.2GB when loaded with lossless compression on. Pretty cool !
No issues, No cracks, no warnings.

Only one, and I cannot find why.... : When using RearouteAsio (x64) to Reaper 4.23pre9 x64 I get firecrackers like sounds every one minute or so...
The same when using Jack 1.9.9beta x64.
They stop when I raise the latency settings up to 360 or so (on Reaper which rules in this setup). This is strange as with pure GO 966 I went down to 128 buffers at 48000Hz, loading everything and all at 24/48KHz and the sound is Great.
Also all other apps in my lap, and believe me there are too many...., haven't issues like that, either Rearoute, either Jack, they work smoothly and right.
So something must be in GO... dunno

All the latest commits from Martin, are crashing my whole computer here, after loading the organ, in a state that I had to close the computer with the power button, all frozen !!
Maybe my lap is kinda old for those commits, because I tested the previous Martin's build in my wife's lap (win7 64bit, i5 2.3GHz, 4GB ram, Conexant soundcard and Asio4all) and it works OK (??)

Going now to get me 972 , thanks. Ah, by the way and this is a Graham's issue, I do not recieve GO list e-mails.... Only the first one or two when Graham started the list then stopped, so I'm kinda late on info LoL

 

[Ghekorg7 (Ret)]

Hi Martin,

Please explain this a little further :

3) The best way is: Determine the setting with the tuning dialog and finally copy them into the ODF.

Also from your post I understand that also my way of repeating for each sample the release count, is correct but either way is not stable and defined to any wav files used?

Another thing that I found during testing is that we can set the overall volume in odf's end ( [organ] Volume=-14 for example) and each time we open this set GO sets -14 on top (volume), but we cannot do this for Polyphony and/or Reverb (which is essential in some sets now) ?

 

[Larioant]

I'm looking forward with your GO sets creation software !!!!! will be
GREAT NEWS !


Do not exaggerate.


The program is very simple.
It builds the ODF regarding the wav files.


After choosing how many relase has the file, the program asks for the


stop name, enter no more than 8 alphabetic characters, this name is used


only to recognize the TXT file when it is created.


Enter the path where they are wav files of the registry.


Enter the relase as an example.


In the end it creates a txt file from which you should copy and paste in


our ODF.
Multirelase Eng.zip



Try if it works. Thank you.


Greetings Antonio.

 

[Larioant]

I'm looking forward with your GO sets creation software !!!!! will be GREAT NEWS !


Do not exaggerate.


The program is very simple.
It builds the ODF regarding the wav files.


After choosing how many relase has the file, the program asks for the stop name, enter no more than 8 alphabetic characters, this name is used


only to recognize the TXT file when it is created.


Enter the path where they are wav files of the registry.


Enter the relase as an example.


In the end it creates a txt file from which you should copy and paste in our ODF.

Multirelase Eng.zip




Try if it works. Thank you.


Greetings Antonio.

 

[e9925248]

Please explain this a little further :

3) The best way is: Determine the setting with the tuning dialog and finally copy them into the ODF.

The best way for an interactive search for the perfect setting is the tuning dialog [You can create the ODF for this with any amplitude, pitch settings]. After that, you replace the number in the ODF with the number, you found via the tuning dialog.

Also from your post I understand that also my way of repeating for each sample the release count, is correct but either way is not stable and defined to any wav files used?

I have never anticipated, that anybody would repeat the same setting. I don't want to label it as correct - I would simply call the behaviour of GO as undefined.

Another thing that I found during testing is that we can set the overall volume in odf's end ( [organ] Volume=-14 for example) and each time we open this set GO sets -14 on top (volume), but we cannot do this for Polyphony and/or Reverb (which is essential in some sets now) ?

None of these settings are controllable via ODF. Volume currently just works by chance because of some side effects. These will likely go away.

The ODF can control the overall volume of the organ Gain/AmplitudeLevel in the organ Section.

 

[Larioant]

"I'm looking forward with your GO sets creation software !!!!! will be GREAT NEWS !"


Do not exaggerate.


The program is very simple.
It builds the ODF regarding the wav files.


After choosing how many relase has the file, the program asks for the stop name, enter no more than 8 alphabetic characters, this name is used


only to recognize the TXT file when it is created.


Enter the path where they are wav files of the registry.


Enter the relase as an example.


In the end it creates a txt file from which you should copy and paste in our ODF.


Try if it works. Thank you.
[URL=http://www.************/zip/Wh04UCC2/Multirelase_Eng.html]Multirelase Eng.zip[/URL]

Greetings Antonio.

 

[Larioant]

"I'm looking forward with your GO sets creation software !!!!! will be GREAT NEWS !"


Do not exaggerate.


The program is very simple.
It builds the ODF regarding the wav files.


After choosing how many relase has the file, the program asks for the stop name, enter no more than 8 alphabetic characters, this name is used


only to recognize the TXT file when it is created.


Enter the path where they are wav files of the registry.


Enter the relase as an example.


In the end it creates a txt file from which you should copy and paste in our ODF.


Try if it works. Thank you.


Link: http://www.************/zip/Wh04UCC2/Multirelase_Eng.html
The link I try to put it back in the next post, if the moderator allows.[FONT=arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
Greetings Antonio.

 

[Larioant]

[URL=http://www.************/zip/Wh04UCC2/Multirelase_Eng.html]Multirelase Eng.zip[/URL]

Here is the link as promised.

Greetings Antonio.

 

[Ghekorg7 (Ret)]

Hi Antonio,
Thanks for your post.
Link's not workin'.....

Even so, looks a very helpful program.
No-one can beat jOrgan in designing custom organ sets (dispositions) and this design power is the weak point of GrandOrgue (though in 0305 we have improvements).
On the other hand, GrandOrgue has great sound where jOrgan with Fluidsynth embedded engine falls back.
In a perfect dream, a combination of jOrgan and GrandOrgue (in one app) would rule the VPO world :-D