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Thread: The Tragedy of German Music

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    The Tragedy of German Music

    We love German music - what is the history of Western music without it? What would our musicians be without it?

    The music of Germany is so very great and powerful, that it seems to be the ne plus ultra, not just in music, but even in all the arts (hence the development to Wagner). Relatively little of it is merely 'delightful', whether one speaks of Mozart or whoever - it stirs the depths far too strongly for such a word.

    Yet what seems joyous, at any rate in general, in Bach and Haydn and Mozart, is utterly changed in Wagner and Strauss. This is part of the greater German tragedy of course. Then the real aesthetic horrors begin.

    I have been trying to understand this colossal phenomenon for years, of Romanticism in German culture, of the good and bad in German music. Perhaps there are others in the forum who are interested, and may be able to help me in what I find to be a fascinating but very troubling history.

    It means so much, yet we understand it so little.

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    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Btw, Mozart and Haydn were Austrian, unless you believe the "Anschluess" is alive and well today

    And what about the the German Tragedy??? Troubling History??? Please, don't be a troll. And please remember that Wagner died many years before Adolf Hitler was born. Wagner's problem was his being a "skirt chaser" but he was a master orchestrator like Richard Strauss - Yes, I adore the HyperUltraSymphonic music of Wagner, Strauss, Bruckner, Mahler, and Korngold.
    Last edited by Corno Dolce; Jun-26-2012 at 07:28.
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

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    Chief assistant to the assistant chief JHC's Avatar
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    Hmmm.......... Hitler was Austrian and Beethoven was German, the Austrians have been trying to convince the world that it is the other way round for ever and a day.
    I don’t want a signature any more

  4. Likes White Knight liked this post
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    Rear Admiral Appassionata John Watt's Avatar
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    I'll see JHC's "Hmmm" and raise him an "Oooooh".
    I have some Bavarian tragedy in my life, being offered a $1,000/wk cash gig in a recording polka band.
    And that included afternoons at Marineland during Octoberfest, somewhere I pay to visit.
    But I said no, because I didn't want to wear black leather short pants.
    However, because of festive German attitudes, I did get invited to make the signs for Club Heidehoff,
    and highway signs for the development of a German retirement village in St. Catharines.

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    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Watt View Post
    I'll see JHC's "Hmmm" and raise him an "Oooooh".
    I have some Bavarian tragedy in my life, being offered a $1,000/wk cash gig in a recording polka band.
    And that included afternoons at Marineland during Octoberfest, somewhere I pay to visit.
    But I said no, because I didn't want to wear black leather short pants.
    However, because of festive German attitudes, I did get invited to make the signs for Club Heidehoff,
    and highway signs for the development of a German retirement village in St. Catharines.
    Br. JohnWatt - - Thank you for the comic relief........
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

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    Rear Admiral Appassionata John Watt's Avatar
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    I too felt the need. I might even start using the "like" function, before long.

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    Chief assistant to the assistant chief JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Watt View Post
    I too felt the need. I might even start using the "like" function, before long.
    I hope the need liked being felt, if u use der lik buton yyu will vanish
    I don’t want a signature any more

  10. #8
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Lik??? What say you, Commisar Colin??? Lik is the Swedish word for "Corpse" or "Cadaver" i.e. using the "Lik" function to obtain dead bodies........

    How dreadfully awful
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

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    Chief assistant to the assistant chief JHC's Avatar
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    Yo is dead to rights there bro
    I don’t want a signature any more

  12. #10
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Yeah, and Sweden will put Julian Assange on the next flight to a Federal Penitentiary in the US where he will be gassed to death quicker than three shakes of a lamb's tail.
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  13. #11
    Rear Admiral Appassionata John Watt's Avatar
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    In the United States, being "gassed to death" now means a fatality caused by a hoarding fall of musical instruments,
    more than likely to be more Stratocasters with broken tremolo arms and some Epiphones that weren't real Gibsons.
    "Getting gas" means having the hots for a guitar you only will buy as an offshore, cheap, small-scale copy.
    "Passing gas" means going on and on about how only '50's-'60's guitars are real, as an American university professor.

    As for modern food additives creating an explosive gas that's a danger for morticians, that's "lik-gas", in Swedish.

  14. #12
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    JohnWatt,

    Yep, gases from rotting flesh are always a "quaint fragrance".............
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

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    Spectral Warrior con passion White Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingo296 View Post
    We love German music - what is the history of Western music without it? What would our musicians be without it?

    The music of Germany is so very great and powerful, that it seems to be the ne plus ultra, not just in music, but even in all the arts (hence the development to Wagner). Relatively little of it is merely 'delightful', whether one speaks of Mozart or whoever - it stirs the depths far too strongly for such a word.

    Yet what seems joyous, at any rate in general, in Bach and Haydn and Mozart, is utterly changed in Wagner and Strauss. This is part of the greater German tragedy of course. Then the real aesthetic horrors begin.

    I have been trying to understand this colossal phenomenon for years, of Romanticism in German culture, of the good and bad in German music. Perhaps there are others in the forum who are interested, and may be able to help me in what I find to be a fascinating but very troubling history.

    It means so much, yet we understand it so little.
    If you are really serious about engaging in/reading about such a discusssion and the issues it engenders, hop on over to our sister forum, Talk Classical and check out what's been going on there--for quite some time--with this topic. WK
    Whatever floats your boat May your reach always exceed your grasp

  16. #14
    Chief assistant to the assistant chief JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
    If you are really serious about engaging in/reading about such a discusssion and the issues it engenders, hop on over to our sister forum, Talk Classical and check out what's been going on there--for quite some time--with this topic. WK
    I think he has gone Steve
    I don’t want a signature any more

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  18. #15
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    "Tragedy of German Music" - Well, I'll hop on over to Talk Classical and ease myself into that discussion.
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

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