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#1 (permalink) |
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Seaman, Mezzoforte
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 10
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Piano Concerto DIfficulty Rankings
All,
I've been dabbling with various piano concerti and would like some opinion as to how you would rank/rate various works. For example, what would be an ideal piano concerto to begin with (relatively easy or moderate)? Which are good for intermediate pianists...which are best left to advanced pianists, and which are impossible? Feel free to mix/match composers and periods. EASY/MODERATE/DIFFICULT/IMPOSSIBLE? I look forward to hearing from you |
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#2 (permalink) |
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Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 2,873
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Re: Piano Concerto DIfficulty Rankings
Well, that`s a pretty tough question, but I`ll take a stab at it.
First off, I would say that in general, one would have to be a fairly advanced pianist to tackle pretty much any piano concerto, because they`re generally large, major works. Guess it depends on your definition of 'advanced.' But judging from your post in the new members part of the forum, you should have no trouble with just about any of them. I would suggest maybe starting with some second movements of concerti. They`re usually easier because they`re slow movements, generally. Guess that`s pretty obvious, but Ravel`s slow 2nd mvt. of his Piano Concerto in G comes to mind. It`s really beautiful in it`s simplicity, although a tad on the depressing side. One has to be able to do a loooong trill at the end. I think Mozart P. Concerti are fairly accessible- my favourite is his Piano Concerto No. 20 in d minor. The first movement is quite dramatic. There are plenty of light, cheerful Mozart Concerti to choose from also. I`ve only tried parts of the Tchaikovsky, and found it takes a lot of energy! But what a super piece. I`ve also tried parts of the Rachmaninov No. 2, and to do the opening properly, one has to have large hands- otherwise one can get away with rolling the chords. Truth be told, I haven`t got big enough hands for it, but I don`t like to roll the chords, they need (to me) to be solid, so I omit some of the notes. *sigh* Anyway. Well, that`s what comes to mind for now. I`m curious, feel free to post what concerti you have tried so far, and what your thoughts are. I find the problem with learning concerti is that few of us get the opportunity to have the full effect of the piece, what with the orchestra parts missing. Not many of us get the chance to play with an orchestra. Of course, one can have another pianist play the orchestra part, but... Any thoughts/experiences on that? Final thought- Maybe play the concerti you like to listen to.
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#3 (permalink) |
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Seaman, Mezzoforte
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 10
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Re: Piano Concerto DIfficulty Rankings
Thank you rojo for your remarks.
My intent with this thread is to try to put together a suggested course of study for those wishing to play concerti. Music Minus One has about 60 concerti that they sell, where you get the score and a CD with orchestra, including tracks minus the piano so you can play along. I'd like to start with something simple, master that, then move along to something more difficult, but it's hard to get opinion as to how difficult each one is. They run about $40.00 so you don't want to gamble a lot with something you could never play. My first concerto attempt was Beethoven #1. I purchased a Music Minus One CD and started to learn it, but the CD tempo was so fast I couldn't keep up and lost interest. ![]() Since then Music Minus One has started including a 20% slower tempo CD as well, so it's easier to feel the sensation of playing with the orchestra while you're learning the piece...very exciting. I'm sure it's nothing like the real thing, but I haven't had many offers lately to play with any orchestras, so it will have to do. ![]() That being said, I've dabbled in the following concerti: Beethoven #1 - I'd say moderately difficult. I haven't mastered it yet but I can play through it. Beethoven #2 - (actually the first written by Beethoven) - I just started looking at this one and it seems easier than #1, even though it's in B-flat Maj as opposed to #1 (C Major). Rachmaninoff #2 - one of my favorites, and I think it's accessible, but definitely a difficult one to master. Also, the tempi varies through the piece and it's hard to sense what the CD orchestra is doing without the conductor. Grieg #1 - A classic, and I haven't spent much time with it, but it's no picnic either Mozart #5 - I picked this one because I felt it would be easier to learn, and I was correct. I haven't mastered it either but I think I can nail it in a month or two. It's very runny (massive quantities of 16th runs). It's also a very playful concerto, and the Music Minus One set also includes the Rondo and Variations at the end. Prokofiev #1 and #3 - Whew! #3 is my all-time favorite but I don't anticipate learning this one in my lifetime...I work full-time and can only practice about 30 min. a day. #1 seems a bit more accessible, but still definitely VERY DIFFICULT! (at least to me). If anyone else has any input I'd love to hear it. Ed |
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#4 (permalink) |
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Recruit, Pianissimo
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1
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Hi,
I guess this thread is already irrelevant, but I wish to add my comments, for others, like me, who find themselves reading it further down the road. I am an amateur pianist. That is to say, pianism is not, nor was it ever my primary occupation, ambition or interest. I've been studying the piano going on 13 years now, with two long hiatuses interspersed. However, my musical appetite and drive have never been stronger. For the amateur player, playing a piano concerto is akin to an amateur athlete running an Olympic marathon. You must prepare yourself for a challenge unlike never before. The piano concerto has long been considered to ultimate expression of keyboard virtuosity, and as such, composers have let their ambition and vision run rampart in writing these amazing pieces. When taking on such a challenge, it is important to keep in mind these facts. Preparing a piano concerto can take years (again, for an amateur), so you must not expect too much of yourself lest you end up frustrated and disappointed. Study the piece in small portions, at a comfortable tempo. Devote yourself to playing musically and with expression, while overcoming technical difficulties slowly and with dedication. Listen to recordings if you wish, but when seating yourself to your task, ignore the tempo you just heard, and play slowly but confidently. Nothing grates on the nerves more than an attempt by an unprepared performer to achieve great speed. As far as Minus One recordings go, they are a great novelty to have, but terribly difficult to work with. A record has no feeling, as no connection to you. The record runs blithely on, not only when you blunder, but even if you take a moment longer on a note to achieve the proper expression. Do not play with a Minus One before you have spent long enough with the piece to be able to play even the difficult passages comfortably. I would not focus on playing with the recording as a goal unto itself. Instead, find a pianist friend (or teacher) willing to play the orchestra's reduction. A few tips. First and foremost, only play a concerto you truly love. If you're going to apply yourself to this daunting task, it should be with the zest and passion that come from an honest connection to a piece. I would recommend acquainting yourself with a variety of concerti from different time-periods and composers. To begin with, I would never attempt to play a full concerto. I would stick to playing a single movement. Middle (2nd) movements are usually slower and more filled with expression. I'd suggest playing one of these. Should you wish to try something more demanding and virtuoso, go for an opening movement. Closing movements are of essence more demanding technically and more brilliant, and are usually designed to showcase the soloists technical abilities. Acquaint yourself with the piece's history and the composer's work. Playing a Mozart concerto? Play through a few of his sonatas to get a feel for his style. Now, the rankings! ![]() In my humble opinion, the Mozart concerti are the most accessible. However, the more dramatic ones, such as no. 20, are particularly difficult, to the disappointment of those of a more romantic character (such as myself). If you are a fan of Herr Bach, he wrote a few keyboard concerti that are truly spectacular. Beethoven's concerti require solid grounding in his sonatas. In the romantic period, the Schumann concerto in A minor, the first Brahms concerto, and the two concerti by Chopin are all very characteristic of their writers and of the period. Check out the score for yourself to see if they are right for your level and skill. I've been working on Schumann's first movement for a year and have surprised myself with the results. Stay far, far away from concerti written by Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, Liszt and Prokofiev. They are incredibly demanding. I've heard somewhere that the most difficult piano concerti ever written were Tchaikovsy's 1st and Rachmaninoff's 3rd. Schonberg's concerto is also considered impossible, though for a different reason. Do not attempt any of the three unless you are a masochist. Hope my comments are of help to you and others looking in on this thread. Barak. |
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#5 (permalink) |
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Captain of Water Music
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 369
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If Beethoven's first two concerti were done in 'reverse' order, Chopin's two piano concerti were also composed in 'reverse' order. The numbering was from publishing dates.
Some piano concerti, including Tchaikovsky's, were at first considered "impossible" to play, and that was the verdict of some of his teachers!! As romping as the second one is, it's less often performed, supposedly because, in the second movement, pianists don't like to share the limelight with two other players. Neverthless, the piece is a gem. There was once a recording of it by Gary Graffman, before he injured his right hand. But, as mentiioned above, piano concerti aren't for beginners. |
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#6 (permalink) |
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Apprentice, Piano
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 5
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While it is true that concerti are really for the advanced,
maybe it could be accomplished beginning with Concertos written for students, and concertinos by composers writing somewhat smaller works before attempting a Mozart or even a Beethoven concerto. for example, Catherine Rollins (american? im not sure...) has written "concertos" with all three movements for students, and Alec Rowley (english) and Kabelevsky have written concertos for "youth" and are fairly hard but i would say that they are a step easier than a mozart, also nice to have an easier concerto in a style that is not straightforward and classical. then i agree, Mozart would come next, and then Shostakovich concerti arent that bad, then Greig and Beethoven and Chopin , Tchaikovsky and Prokofiev. eryx |
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