Terrorism, elections and conspiracy theories.

[giovannimusica]

Hi gareth,

I believe it is important that our Brothers and Sisters in Denmark need our prayers during this onslaught of radical Islam asserting itself against Europe in general and Denmark in particular.

Cheers,

Giovanni

[prokop]

Are you serious about calling the bolivarian movement a disease and if that is the case, could you elaborate why Gio ?

In my view the attack is healthy for our democracy, as our core values are challenged. It's going to be interesting to follow the outcome of all this.

[giovannimusica]

Hi prokop,

If you were in Venezuela and got to experience Chavez's shock-troops going door -to-door in the middle of the night, draggging out the occupants and making them disappear, never to be heard from again, I'm sure you would revise your take on the attack on our democracy. Be happy that you live in such a free society as you do.

Cheers,

Giovanni

[Gareth]

I have never heard of such things, thats why I think Australia is the best place to live in the world. Islam has been changed around though, there was this person in the 1950's who had an idea, and he spread it, saw it on a documentary, basically it was saying that Islam has been changed, it all started in Egypt, and this guy's hatred for western countries, and obviously Christianity is the most widespread religion in Western Countries, so they are targeting that.

[prokop]

Well gio, I try to be no fool and I have lived under communist opression so I'm no socialistic utopist either.
--

Your accusations of Mr. Chavez is a postulate, I would be most interested in reading your sources. I know that I'm not allknowing on the Venezuelan situation, but from what I read is that Chavez is twice democratically elected, survived 7 referendums against his goverment or constitutional changes and two millitary coups with strong US involvement.

Amnesty International's reports on Venezuela has a great deal of listings on death threats/fear of safety, objections of allowing international rights organizations to work freely in Venezuela but nothing as drastic as your mentionend death squads.

As comparison, see Amnestys US page where well documented cases of everything from execution of mentally ill to sanctioned torture appears.

I understand that Mr. Chavez is implementing certain sympatic things for his 80% poor population such as free health and dental system, price control on most consumed food items, _eliminated_ illeteracy in Venezuela, built tens of thounsands high schools and provided free education up to and through university level. He has the luxury of holding the highest approval rating in all of the americas of 70.5% (Dow Jones) You must agree that the pattern of strenghtening a total population by education is not desirable by any repression-based system.

I read also that in Venezuela the economy grew by 17% in 2004 and over 9% (quarter over quarter) in the first 9 months of 2005. This was the fastest growth in the hemisphere.
--

I therefore do not understand your hostile attitude towards the current Venezuelan goverment, as it from an humanitarian point seems to help a great deal of poor people in one of the worlds oilrichest countries. I realize that nothing is ever perfect, but it surely seems like a positive development?

I'm glad we have this opportunity to discuss Venezuela as I'm always interested in learning more about the current state of the world. I looking forwards to your reply.

[giovannimusica]

Hi prokop,

You seem to be a knowledgeable individual and a good sport to boot and I laud that.

However, I see that we are on different wavelengths already. The developing situations in South America preclude quick analysis and massmedia hyperspeculation.

Rather than entering into a dead-end, take no hostages discussion with you, I respectfully decline further exchange about the Venezuelan situation.

Cheers,

Giovanni

[Kromme]

I have never heard of such things, thats why I think Australia is the best place to live in the world. Islam has been changed around though, there was this person in the 1950's who had an idea, and he spread it, saw it on a documentary, basically it was saying that Islam has been changed, it all started in Egypt, and this guy's hatred for western countries, and obviously Christianity is the most widespread religion in Western Countries, so they are targeting that.

Gareth,i must say that for a Muslim a Christian is a brother or a sister compared to a Jew.Most of the time their reasons to be angry with Christians is their belief that Christians are used by Jews in their dirty business according to their "Jew rules everything." theory.

I must agree with you about threats brought by radical Islam.Threat is growing.One of the most democratic countries with a vast majority of people being Muslims is my country Turkey and i must say we are on the verge of losing our freedom of belief.Current cabinet is consisted of people who want the country to be governed by religious rules and principles of Qur'an.Presidents tenure is coming to an end.He was the one who is defending democracy and freedom of belief for this time.The prime minister is more than likely to become new president and he will unite these positions into a presidency like presidency of G.W.Bush or presidency of Adolf Hitler with every right on everyones life and he will become the president of religion based country of Turkey.The name of our country will not be Turkish Republic anymore but Turkish Islamic Republic just like Iran.Then U.S. will try to bring democracy to us just like they did to Afghanistan,Iraq and also Vietnam.

For conspiracy theories about U.S government and 9/11 you may check out this link:Loose Change 2nd Edition - Türkçe altyazılı, Turkish subtitled - Google Video

[Sybarite]

I'm delighted to report that, in the UK we have just fought off an assault by fundamentalist Christians to gain exemption from the law and be allowed to discriminate against homosexuals in service provision.

And this despite attempted blackmail by the head of the Roman Catholic church in England and Wales, and the best efforts of Tony Blair's religious mafia.

Fundamentalism exists in all religions. And it would be a mistake to forget that and only concentrate on part of the problem.

Perhaps one day we really will, to borrow from Nietzsche, 'kill God'.

As John Lennon said: "Imagine..."

[FKA1]

Am I the only American to post on this thread?
Interesting reading 2 years of posts, seeing the
developments unfold.

BTW-Giovanni- It's the Democratic Party.
That's a sore spot, originated as a slam by McCarthy
in the 50s, further developed by Newt Gingrich.

Changes are coming rapidly in the US, so much so,
that's sometimes it's difficult to convey.

As to the original question posed by the thread starter-
I wouldn't put it past the Bush Junta to be the causeof
another "terrorist" attack, to declare martial law, suspend
elections.
Many in the US (around 25%) are now convinced that
the administration at least allowed 9/11 to happen.
Personally, i find it incredulous that anyone believes
a few lessons on a small aircraft (Cessna) would allow a person
to fly a jumbo airliner, let alone accurately enough to use it
as a missle.
For further reading on the subject, here's a link to an
organization of commercial pilots that find it hard to believe also.
http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/

P e a c e
Kirk/FKA1

[Sybarite]

... As to the original question posed by the thread starter-
I wouldn't put it past the Bush Junta to be the causeof
another "terrorist" attack, to declare martial law, suspend
elections.
Many in the US (around 25%) are now convinced that
the administration at least allowed 9/11 to happen.
Personally, i find it incredulous that anyone believes
a few lessons on a small aircraft (Cessna) would allow a person
to fly a jumbo airliner, let alone accurately enough to use it
as a missle.
For further reading on the subject, here's a link to an
organization of commercial pilots that find it hard to believe also.
http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/

P e a c e
Kirk/FKA1

FKA1, in my opinion, the biggest question at present is how much Bush is posturing over Iran and how likely he really is to order some form of an attack on that country.

[FKA1]

FKA1, in my opinion, the biggest question at present is how much Bush is posturing over Iran and how likely he really is to order some form of an attack on that country.

Hi Sybarite-
I agree, that is the issue du jour.
The underlying issue for the US, is Bush and Dick
assuming presidential powers that aren't in place,
such as the ability to wage war w/o Congressional approval.

I was addressing the original question from post 1-
"What measure would a regime be willing to take to stay in power?"

If we could link the admin to impeachable offenses and/or
criminal actions, such as "parting the waves" for the 9/11 terrorists,
then Iran being attacked, the escalation in Iraq is no longer an issue.

IMO-These are some very bad people that've seized office.
Even the Republican party doesn't deserve them.
Do a Google on "Straussians" or Leo Strauss if you're not
familiar w/ the term.

Kirk/FKA1

[Stronghold]

Wow some intristing comentary I will say this thread seems vary politically driven I am hearing a single word alot latey thees days though and I belive their is some truth to it and that is (balance) are the lack of and your right on a few points I just picked a few but first I have a few questons maby some one can awnser for me because I believe it ties into all of this misguided train wreck.


(America) land of the free and milk and hony ?

How many countrys other than americia give as much money and aid to poverished nations than we do? I would like some numbers on this on how much we have given compaired to other nations for one and for two why hasent it done any good and I need a better awnser than it was spent by a bad seed in leadership meaning dictator are drug loards ect.


Why is that important ?

Well countrys that deny financial gain for their peoples we should not deall with period in any way that will force theem to fight it out to battle for a better life just like we did here in Americia.

We have had the capability to run are aconomy with vary little usage of Oil for years why arnt we doing that ? during world war 1 and 2 are nation stood hand in hand together men and woman working in metal shops building tanks that were ordinary people off the streets.

Why cant we do the same and build hybrid cars for everyone at a low cost in the end it will be cheaper than war and political kickbacks for corupt nations who suck the life out of are great nation.


Never fall in love with a politition well I agree fall in love with people the problems in the intire world are happening because of a toatle lack of love and respect for eachother and that is a fact no matter what level of disputed situations cause a problem.

Example Cia contibutes arms to fuel a koo ect.

Coruption is every ware if you think its not than you are a fool

All im saying on that point is if you do not have a reason to make a choice that will harm you latter on than there is no issue at all.

Hate comes in manny forms and is driven by madness - Soicial presure,Inviornmentel climate,Continental prosperity,Opresion of peoples, basic necesitys of life food and shelter ect. .


What is a simple and great saying God helps thoughs that help theem selfs well if you have a problem with saying the word God than replace it with Love.

And you can see a message of love vary plainly as aposed to a message of evill


That to me is the ballance in a simple form you can coplicate the message with an incredibal amount of facts to get lost in are you can just open up your eyes and look around you and no that this world is dying and it seems that only two countrys the US and UK are putting in resorces to save it.

Now the question I would like to hear are (solution ) is how do we do that with the formost thought being that of a peacfull solution to put out a furnace of fire.

You said boms dont work and bullets I completly agree what would work?


Dealing only with countrys that only treat their own people well and have a stable governmental chain?


Well we have that and I personally feall we are opressed in are own county but what seperates us from the rest of the world is the fact that we can change laws and even revers laws on the books to restor a since of ballance.

And that is the only reason America works at all as a nation if we loose are ballance of fair play and love and respect for the constitution and peoples freedoms and ideals than we have lost as a human race to grow up beyond are own slefishness and understanding of are own personal growth as a peoples.


We need solutions as aposed to getting lost in a maze of he said she said world of politics.

Just my openion take care all.

[Sybarite]

... How many countrys other than americia give as much money and aid to poverished nations than we do? ...

Per head of population, quite a few.

Stats from 2002.

In 2002, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Japan, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland and the UK.

And the stats for 2006.

[doctortornface]

One just needs to ask Kofi Annan where the *Mercedes* is and then you'll find out how corrupt the UN is. How can one possibly defend an organization whose blue-helmeted soldiers raped thousands of seven-year old girls in Liberia or did nothing to stop the slaughter of a million people when the Hutus and the Tutsi's when berserk???

Time has come to cut down the UN, commit it to the fiery furnace and create a body called the League of Democracies where all members come from democratically elected governments.

Giovanni

Giovanni, where on earth do you get your so called facts? There is more fiction in any of your posts than my local Library,You state rightly about hutus and tutsis,but then slip in abject nonsense like and they raped thousannds of 7 year old girls....was it only seven year olds were 8,9,10 year olds safe and what about 4,5,6,...or 20,18's etc....rape is a terrible thing in any circumstance and you make a mockery of it by talking drivel with your so called facts.
The thing about conspiracy theories is,that it would be a great way for a world wide crime web like S.M.E.R.S.H. to hide it real intentions.Because afterall if it isn't the American govmt. it must be someone...... a serious subject brought to it's knees by unsubstansiated rumours and makebelieve.For goodness sake things are bad enough with out inventing ****....sorry rant over....unless Giovanni starts again....the Americans probably blew up the twin towers themselves just to keep power...yes and my great uncle Bob drove a 4x4 into Glasgow Airport to publicise his chippy.....