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.organ file size

Dorsetmike

Member
The .organ file type is not currently among those that can be uploaded as attachments to this site, the usual two ways round this would be to convert to a .txt file or zip; Lars informs me that it can be added to the list but he needs to know what maximum file size to give it.

The largest I have is for a 2 manual & ped with 39 stops at 199Kb, presumably the larger the organ the larger the file, I have one at around 2Kb. (for experimental purposes only, 3 stops, no generals, no divisionals, no labels, no couplers, amazing what you can cut out and it still works!)

What would be the controlling factor, number of stops or number of manuals, probably a bit of each I would guess 500Kb would probably be the max most would need although 1Mb should cover a pretty massive organ?

Anybody trying to reproduce Atlantic city's or the Wanamaker?
 

e9925248

New member
Its difficult to give a maximum limit for the file size, as it depends on my factors:
* One pipe can have multiple attack as well as releases - the tremulant can use a different set of samples.
* Length of the path names can vary.
* Its possible to define/overwrite the sample metadata (eg. loops) via the ODF
* Preprogrammed divisonal / generals require more space on large organs.

GO will get further options in the future - so there will be more options for larger ODFs.

On the other hand, compressing ODFs results in significant smaller file sizes.
 

Dorsetmike

Member
Maybe if we had some idea of what current large files are then ask for double that, as I quoted above my largest is 199Kb for a 2 manual and ped with 39 stops, that would suggest to me that a large 4 manual with 80 stops would probably top 400Kb so would 1Mb be beyond what subsequent versions may need? As things stand at present and allowing for future enhancements, is 1Mb a sufficient limit for the foreseeable future, or might 500Kb be enough?

Are there any parts of the .organ file that are no longer necessary? A few items seem to get included "because it's always been that way"; also with the enhanced capabilities of GO itself are all items still necessary?

I've recently started to prune chunks out of the .organ file on some experimental works. GO throws up error messages during load that at times get exasperating to cure precisely, typical recent example was about "Label 001 position" can't recall the exact wording but deleteing the complete Label section stopped the error message and the organ still did what I wanted; I had spent some time trying to figure out what was wrong with label 001's position, so many of the error reports have very little information of use to the average user, maybe some work is need on a fault message decoder? There was nothing in the .organ file which remotely resembled the label error message, OK Label001 is mentioned in .organ, PositionY is mentioned also but the following number 25 had no apparent relevance, not even when comparing with other .organ files which load OK. Is the 25 a location in the Y plane, or is it a code for the error type?
 

e9925248

New member
As things stand at present and allowing for future enhancements, is 1Mb a sufficient limit for the foreseeable future, or might 500Kb be enough?

The are lots of ways (and quality levels) to implement GO samplesets.
Lars is currently working on a demo with at least 6 wav files per pipe [20k for 24 pipes] - compared to a HW1 sampleset, the pipe definition require at least 6x more space for the pipe defintions [probably more, because of some meta data].

So creative people can easily create multi MB ODFs.

Are there any parts of the .organ file that are no longer necessary? A few items seem to get included "because it's always been that way"; also with the enhanced capabilities of GO itself are all items still necessary?

Defining general/divisions with an empty state (=no state defined) will same some space.

There are some options not required any more, because they got a default value - but that is neglectable.

I've recently started to prune chunks out of the .organ file on some experimental works. GO throws up error messages during load that at times get exasperating to cure precisely, typical recent example was about "Label 001 position" can't recall the exact wording but deleteing the complete Label section stopped the error message and the organ still did what I wanted; I had spent some time trying to figure out what was wrong with label 001's position, so many of the error reports have very little information of use to the average user, maybe some work is need on a fault message decoder? There was nothing in the .organ file which remotely resembled the label error message, OK Label001 is mentioned in .organ, PositionY is mentioned also but the following number 25 had no apparent relevance, not even when comparing with other .organ files which load OK. Is the 25 a location in the Y plane, or is it a code for the error type?

Have you read the ODF specification in the help [The SF.net project also contains a PDF version of a help snapshot]?

Lable999 are the text fields, eg if you load burea church, the panel contains a label with the name of the organ builder and a label with a year. Its up to the ODF creator, if he needs text fields on the panels - they have no other function than displaying text.

The exact error message would be helpful. Guessing for the incomplete data, you have deleted some position related entries. Therefore GO tried to derive based on the defaults and the remaining data a position, which turns out to be out of the visible range.
 

L.Palo

New member
Lars is currently working on a demo with at least 6 wav files per pipe [20k for 24 pipes] - compared to a HW1 sampleset, the pipe definition require at least 6x more space for the pipe defintions [probably more, because of some meta data].

Above mentioned sampleset is half finished and in the version that demonstrates all the different releases the size is at present around 119 kB for a single stop (loaded three times, but still)! There are no extra anything like divisionals, generals or images, panels etc. But indeed it seems that it would be extremely easy to increase the size very much if one adds more features. Also note that I don't add the tuning corrections in the odf but in the sample files metadata instead. With tuning and voicing info added for every pipe the size would grow considerably.

The largest odf I have so far comes from Barton alpha and that is 455.7 kB.

However, as the .organ files are plain text files they respond very well to compression and that's perhaps the best way to distribute them anyway.

Kind regards

Lars P
 

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
We have sufficient room on the servers ... so I was thinking in terms of making the limit for ".organ" uploads at 10 MB - would that suffice for the majority of interested parties. We want to be as accommodating as possible :) We could go larger if necessary.
 

Dorsetmike

Member
I would think 10Mb would be more than enough, however if we have the space then go ahead, unless anybody has any further thoughts.
 

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
Seeing none ... hearing none ... it's Done :)

10.0 MB upload limit for "organ" files.
Effective date: 14-Nov-2012
 
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