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Soundcard: choosing it for multi-channel

CatOrg

New member
Hello, I use Grandorgue and want to multichannel the output (audiogroups, like in HW). I would like to have till 6 channels (quadro-vertical, one center, one rear) and have not so much choice. Two models are coming out the possibilities, here. I want just to know if both support multichannels as HW and GO wants it:
- M-Audio delta 1010LT
- Focusrite Saffire pro 24
Thanks in advance!
 

L.Palo

New member
Hi!

I've no direct experience with the soundcards you list, but I've heard that many are very content with the PCI M-Audio delta 1010LT (which is supposed to work fine under Linux too). The Focusrite Saffire pro 24 is a firewire device and while firewire has excellent reputation among audiophiles (considered "better" than usb for various reasons), I would personally be a bit cautious about it as I mainly use Linux. Both have enough in/out options for what you wish to do.

I'm currently upgrading my own audio setup for GrandOrgue to a 7.1 system (output divided on one 5.1 receiver and another 2.0 receiver) but I'm using the built in soundcard (realtec alc892) that is on the motherboard (GA-H55N-USB3). I'll use the analog outputs as I intend to use two different receivers. The speaker setup will be two normal front speakers, one center, two "side" speakers at the front too in between the fronts and center, two rear speakers and one subwoofer. As far as I'm concerned the audio quality from the built-in soundcard seems perfectly good enough for my needs and what my receivers/speakers can handle.

If I had to choose between the two cards you've listed I'd take the M-audio delta 1010LT, but that's only my (Linux biased) opinion.

Kind regards

Lars P
 

Ghekorg7 (Ret)

Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret)
Hi,

I too like Lars, no extra audio card only the Realtek in my PC, but has 5.1 dolby digital on its digital out which works great. I hear HQ sound here (KRK and JPW pro monitors).
Now with Lars' tip I think I'm gonna try adding the stereo Analogue one to a kinda 7.1 set-up.... ))))))

All my pro studio owners friends, choose firewire (I'm for usb 3....) because can handle more than 8 ch (USB limit). I don't see any other difference and indeed they choose Focusrite.
For what you desire dear CatOrg I believe Delta is a good choice, yes. But check first your on board card if it is like Lars' and mine, can save you costs !

Best
Panos
 

e9925248

New member
Please be aware, that GO only supports ONE sound driver entry (with any number of channels), so the sound card driver must present their outputs as channels of one output device.
Sound cards, which present there various outputs as distinct output devices, are not supported.

Consumer devices (eg. 5.1/7.1 sound cards, on-board sound) very likely implement this. Erikds eg. has one "better" sound card, which provides a not supported 3x2 channels.
 

CatOrg

New member
Many thanks to all! I was thinking of the saffire since this is more flexible than pci...
Dear e99 (and very apreciated Guru ;-) ) I am old minded. I grew with pipes and blowers to make organ music, so excuse my questions that show a certain lack in computer technique knowledge:
- How can I know if a sound card has one or more driver entry?

Else I found that M-audio profire 410 WAS recommended, but now 610 is here. I suppose this remains?
(Focusrite is not recommende since reverb is not compatible with HW/GO, I found that right now... and eriks sound is Saffire oops...)
 
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L.Palo

New member
I was thinking of the saffire since this is more flexible than pci...

Only because it's an external device. But pci is likely to be easier to have configured and get a lower latency with (again this is from my own, Linux oriented, perspective).

- How can I know if a sound card has one or more driver entry?

Unfortunately, the best way would be to try it out. A tip would be to try to download the manuals for the devices and read them. Google for user manuals/experiences, reviews etc to try to deduce the necessary information. The M-audio delta 1010LT does show up on the HW forum as an example of "pro audio" cards suitable for multi channel usage, but I cannot say for certain that it will work since I've not had that card myself.

What about the built-in soundcard of your computer? It's capabilities, brand etc... Is it really necessary with another audio interface or will there be other parts in the "audio chain" that is more important to spend money on to improve the sound? With most consumer grade devices the greatest difference will be in the recording qualities (worse A/D converters, no phantom power feed etc) compared to pro audio devices. My gut feeling is that the playback capabilities is not that different. Your choice of monitors/speakers and receivers/amplifiers will perhaps have much more impact on the audible audio quality.

If you're thinking about recording with the computer too (for instance sampling organs :)) then I completely understand the necessity of a better soundcard, if you're only thinking about playback then the soundcard is perhaps not the weakest link to focus on and you can live with what's built-in. Just food for thought...

Kind regards

Lars P
 

CatOrg

New member
Dear Lars,

I have still my old Amilo 1650G, its a laptop and it cames at the end of his capabilities with GO. GO needs more RAM (more or less 30% more than Myorgan) so actually with 2GB, Burea (love it) loads partially and Burea choir organ (love it too) also partially. Barton doesnt load at all, for the same reasons. It has a firewire output, this is the only good news. It has a realtek 5:1 inside (!!!) but no physical output ("this feature is not disponible now").
- So I think of "bettering" an old case here (sempron with 2:1-sound and also 2GB maxi RAM), that means new motherboard & cpu, probably incompatible HDD so new HDD, so I could save only the case and the +5v. First I will install ubuntu as-it-is to have my own exp with it and see how to get more of it (this will not be my first Linux-exp, but I ever had to renounce to Linux because of internet-router problems - mostly Wlan-hardware-problems). So probably a new motherboard with onboard 5:1 or 7:1, 8-16GB RAM
- #2 buying a 2nd Hand corporative computer (tower) with i3 and 8 or 16 GB-RAM, if this is really silent (here quite cheap). Need for PCI-soundcard. 1010lt? EMU 1820m?
- #3 sometime in the future buy a modern laptop - anyway without 5:1 - and for now continue with Amilo but more interesting with an external (firewire) soundcard. Profire?
What you show in Youtube is what I want. But with more channels to get an interesting sound experience for hearers. Here (Colombia), we have no really concert-ready organ. So I think, to present great organ works, at least spatial feeling...
 
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Ghekorg7 (Ret)

Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret)
Hi CarOrg,

I would keep this 2GB ram lap. For smaller- medium organs in stereo out and Asio4all. Go 0.3.1 x86 can give very HQ results.
On a similar HP lap (with AMD dual core at 2.2GHz + optimizer from AMD site installed) I was running Marienkirche Silbermann, Roquemaure, Smecno (HW1), Ehrlich and Marcussen 1965 organs without problems. Max ram load (losseless compression on - 16/44100) without cracks at 1500MB.

Go for i5 at 2.3GHz minimum instead of i3 if you are to get there. Preferably Ivybridge and in need go for Stacybridge. Hyperthread on i5 is extra power and 16GB ram minimum is a good resource.

Best
Panos
 

CatOrg

New member
Dear Panos, I would prefer this, but for more than 2-speakers, this means external soundcard, and of course customizing some *.organ. Thats definitely a huge task. For home practice is perfect. I use mostly Burea xtended, great. But I also get frustrated when I see the Barton or the Burea-Choir I cant use. In the case of the Burea-choir this definitely a big leap in quality...
 

e9925248

New member
GO needs more RAM (more or less 30% more than Myorgan) so actually with 2GB, Burea (love it) loads partially and Burea choir organ (love it too) also partially. Barton doesnt load at all, for the same reasons.

Is sample size set to 16 bit and lossless compression is enabled?
 

Ghekorg7 (Ret)

Rear Admiral Appassionata (Ret)
Is sample size set to 16 bit and lossless compression is enabled?

Hi CatOrg,

This is very important ! I DID USE BUREA ON MY 2GB ram LAP ! > set loaded at 16bit 44100Hz and lossless compression on (about 40%) exactly as "e" advices !
And AFAIR PITEA too (we tested with Lars and Graham on different OS before releasing it).
 

CatOrg

New member
I googled about that and found the right answer: forget laptops!

I make it short: The reason is that most of laptops are designed to suit masses expectations: long battery life and powerful wifi. All other items have to deal with that, there is not enough energy for them. So Firewire and others are in BIOS de-actived or more or less not really considered. Solution: buy a laptop that is designed for audio, or go tower. That is what I will do. The old athlon runs Myorgan (grandorgue installs but opens with errors, the protocol ist ununderstandable for me and Copy-paste doesnt work there) in stereo. The sempron-laptop goes (to heavy for a laptop anyway) and will be replaced by a used core2 duo with 8GB-RAM and saffire pro 24.
 

CatOrg

New member
Hi e99,

no this is on opening GO without any organ that smthg crashes. If needed, I could make screen copies of the whole report, but this is quite long (the report... Edit: ahemm, eh no, this is definitely too long Edit-end)
Thanks for the link of the Barton-odf
 
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e9925248

New member
no this is on opening GO without any organ that smthg crashes. If needed, I could make screen copies of the whole report, but this is quite long (the report... Edit: ahemm, eh no, this is definitely too long Edit-end)

Only starting GO without loading any organ crashes (GO 1261 or later)?

I would suggest, that you try a start of GO without any old configuration.
The easiest way for this is to create a new windows user and start GO from there.
 

CatOrg

New member
Only starting GO without loading any organ crashes (GO 1261 or later)?

I would suggest, that you try a start of GO without any old configuration.
The easiest way for this is to create a new windows user and start GO from there.

Hem, no. Grandorgue crashes immediately, lets say
double-click - wait 0,2 sec - Crash.

Saying GrandOrgue detected a problem and must close down. Wanna send the report? (as said: awfully long)

There was this problem before reformating totally the disks, reinstalling another XP.
And the computer doesnt accept to load the Ubuntu loader. So I suppose the machine has a hardware bug. Also rebooting without reason from time to time, without any warnng...

Athlon XP 2000+ 2GB-RAM

Anyway, this demons core is in quarantaine, because I need the rest of the hardware (Sreen, mouse etc) to configure my Core2duo.
 

e9925248

New member
Sounds like opening the sound driver triggers the crash.

Saying GrandOrgue detected a problem and must close down. Wanna send the report? (as said: awfully long)
Interpreting crash reports is complicated - especially, if you don't have done the GO build. I don't think, that I'll get useful data out of it.
 
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