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Thread: Here's a part of my work on organ music

  1. #1
    Lieutenant Commander, Concertmaster Izabella's Avatar
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    Cool Here's a part of my work on organ music

    I just wanted to share wht I did so far on my paper with all of you,so if anyone got any coments or suggestions,well anything,please feel free to tell me ...
    And please..if something is written uncorectly,sorry...it isn't easy to translate every Croatian word,but I'll do my best ....

    ORGAN MUSIC IN THE 19th CENTURY
    When we are talking about instrumental music,almost the whole 19th century is marked with romanticism,but in organ music of that time the facts are a bit different...In went through a lack of interest,through romanticism,and at the end of the cenury it crossed to avangard.

    Till 1830.in north and central Germany organ music is market with traditional forms,organ music is written for church needs and was published in many books(!)wich had also included suggestions for performing.

    At the same time in south Germany,France and England organ music is getting to be concert music,whic was tipical for romanticism where the artists wanted to show their virtouosity.

    But the interest for organ music was getting smaller and smaller till 1830.when the rebirth of organ music starts by older organ works being republished,the most important work was the "criticly correct" edition of Bachs complete work(from 1844.forward)by F.C.Griepenkerl.These works influenced many of the great romantic composers,so a lot of them wrote at least one piece for organ.(H.Berlioz,Ch.Gounod,N.Gade,B.Smetana,A.Dvor ak..)

    Of the great composers F.Mendessohn was the first who has written more organ works,he wrote sonatas,preludes and fugues in a romantic way which gave ideas to his temlates and also the later generations,especially in England where his work is still performed.
    R.Schumann and J.Brahms had used Bachs work as a base for their own compositions.
    F.Liszt places the virtouocity as a priority,he finds new ways of expressing the coloristic of the romantic organ.
    A.Bruckner left just a few of his younger works althou he was known as a brilliant organ player with lots of imagination for improvisations.
    J Rheinberger also wrote for organ,his style was simillar ti F.Mendelssohn.

    When M.Reger apeared,Germany got a composer who put organ musin in the central place of his work.He composed older forms as well as the one which apeared in the era of romanticism(choral fantasies,variations,toccatas,passacaglias,prelude s and fugues,sonatas and romantic character pieces..)He managed to conect Bachs polyfony with late romantic harmony and Liszts virtouosity with what he made the organ technic and expression better.

    In France there was also a rebirth of organ music in the 2nd half of the 19th century.Before that there was a motion to rebuild(!) church music which contributed a lot to the rebirth of organ music.The most important name in French organ music of that time is C.Franck.He wrote mostly for organ and he gave organ music a tipical french symphonic style and developes a romanticly-medidative-religious expression.

    In Italy the same thing happens at the end of the 19th century.The rebirth of organ music is led by M.A.Bossi who was under influence of the French movement and style in music.


    THAT'S FOR NOW!!!I really hope it's any good,so you're to judge and once again sorry for my mistakes in spelling and such ...Im curious for opinions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Yours truly
    Izabella

  2. #2
    Commodore de Cavaille-Coll
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    Bravo Izabella!!!

    You have done good work so far. Maybe you could include Charles Tournemire and his use of Gregorian Melodies in his organ works. Charles-Marie Widor and Louis Vierne had great impact on the Organ World. You might wish to look up Louis-Claude Daquin, Francois Couperin, Jean-Adam Guilain, Jehan Alain, Olivier Messiaen, Marcel Dupre and Maurice Durufle and share something that you find noteworthy of these composers.

    Giovanni

  3. #3
    Lieutenant Commander, Concertmaster Izabella's Avatar
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    Thanx Giovanni...
    I have to say I had in mind to say something about Ch.M.Widor,Ch.Tournemire and L.Vierne later in the paper but maybe I should include them in the "intro"...
    Thanx for your suggestions,I'll make sure to mention all the composers.
    and as soon as I find something interesting I'll share it with all of you...

    Yours truly
    Izabella

  4. #4
    Commodore de Cavaille-Coll
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    Hi Izabella,

    You could include the composer's names in an abstract of your paper without going into too much detail.

    Giovanni

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    Lieutenant Commander, Concertmaster Izabella's Avatar
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    Hi every one!
    I just wanted to point out,as Giovanni sead,I'll make an abstract of my paper where I'll mention all the composers for organ music of that time,but my paper will be mainly about which forms did they use,so only the most important composers(if there actually is a criteria like that)will be mentioned wit their biographies and more details...

    I'm looking forward to read your opinions...

    Yours truly
    Izabella

  6. #6
    Midshipman, Forte
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    Hi Izabella!
    I really don't understand, why Giovanni advises you to mention in you work such names as Louis-Claude Daquin, Francois Couperin, Jean-Adam Guilain, Jehan Alain, Olivier Messiaen, Marcel Dupre and Maurice Durufle. All of them are great but not romantic composers (just Dupre and especially Durufle are under question). But I think instead of them you should mention names of Alexandre Guilmant, Teodore Dubois, Eugene Gigout, Louis Lefebure-Welly, Camille Saint-Saens, Boely, Vincent d'Indy etc.
    And I saw probably accidental mistake in your letter: as far as I remeber Bossi had name Marco Enrico, so abbreviation should be M.E. but not M.A.
    About your view on German romantic organ music I can comment that influense of Schumann and Bruckner are overstated. The former wrote his "organ works" for organ or pedalfluegel, the latter wrote a little body of pieces of relatively low significance for organ repertoire . But you nothing say about Julius Reubke , Gustav Merckel, Adolph Haesse, Johann Christian Rinck . Also undiscussable inclusion of Reger to romantic composers is ambiguos .

    I hope I'm not offend you with my criticism?

  7. #7
    Lieutenant Commander, Concertmaster Izabella's Avatar
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    Hi Yury!
    Ofcourse that You did'n offend me,I'm always thankfull for any suggestions 'couse this part that I wrote above is just the first version that has to be aded a lot and changed a lot..
    Thanks for your coments,and once I'll make the changes I'll share it on MIMF so I hope you'll read that also...

    Yours respectfully
    Izabella

  8. #8
    Captain of Water Music Thomas Dressler's Avatar
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    Hi Izabella! Well, if you put these things out here for comments, you're going to get lots of cooks stirring the pot! I have to add that I don't think the assessment of Bruckner was overstated. He was well known as a brilliant improviser at the organ, though it is true that he left us very few written out organ works. I would do a little more looking into Rheinberger, as yes he used Mendelssohn's work for inspiration, but his own style was different from Mendelssohn's. (closer to Brahms, but with even a little Wagner mixed into his later works.) And it's true, you should not leave out the later Romantic Frenchmen, especially Widor and Vierne, but also Tournemire and Alain, at least. Glad to see that you have such an interest in organ music and Romantic composers and forms!

  9. #9
    Commodore de Cavaille-Coll
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    Welcome back, Tom Dressler.

    Cheers,

    Giovanni

  10. #10
    Commodore con Forza
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    It is true that some composers were organists, but did not compose for the organ. Bruckner is indeed one example. In France, there was Gabriel Fauré, who was a trained organist and played at the Madeleine church in Paris for a number of years, but who did not compose a single work for organ (I mean organ solo - his Requiem does include an organ part).

    As far as important organ composers are concerned, I'd put the primary emphasis on the following people (if I've overlooked someone, please tell me!).
    • France: L.J.A. Lefébure-Wély, César Franck, Camille Saint-Saëns, Alexandre Guilmant, Charles-Marie Widor, Eugène Gigout, Louis Vierne, Charles Tournemire, Joseph Bonnet
    • Germany: Robert Schumann, Felix Mendelssohn, Johannes Brahms, Franz Liszt, Julius Reubke, Joseph Rheinberger, Gustav Merkel, Max Reger, Sigfrid Karg-Elert
    • Great-Britain: Charles Stanford, Basil Harwood, Hubert Parry, Herbert Howells
    Some composers from other countries should also be added here, such as Marco Enrico Bossi of Italy, or Joseph Jongen of Belgium.

    After that, one may argue whether, say, Duruflé still counts. But musical styles evolved more or less continuously (the organ didn't have its "revolutionaries" a la Schönberg until much later into the 20th century). So whereever you put your cut-off, it will be artificial.

  11. #11
    Captain of Water Music Thomas Dressler's Avatar
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    Very good list, acc. I know that what happens is that people keep adding and adding and adding. . .the difficult thing is to weed some out and keep the list concise. People will differ on who they feel are the most important ones. It just occured to me, reading your list, that we probably should not leave out Lemmens because he had a tremendous influence, though he is not so widely known these days. I, myself, would include Alain, though his style is certainly late, and his popularity seems to have dwindled these days. My own feeling, however, is that he was a remarkable composer.

    If one is venturing away from German/French/English styles, I would add the excellent American composer, Arthur Foote, who is another largely overlooked composer these days, but who left us some very well crafted pieces.

  12. #12
    Recruit, Pianissimo
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    Hi Izabella.

    Very nice essay. Maybe you should make more of the link between Mendelssohn and J.S. Bach, as he was responsible for the revival of his music.

    In the UK and USA at least, the 19th century 'organ transcription' was very popular, played particularly on the concert organs of the great Town Halls. This gave rise to the organ as an 'orchestra' using 'orchestral colours' in it's registrations.

    The organ 'improvisation' too became very popular, particularly in the French Cathedrals.

  13. #13
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    Hi Thomas, I would like make more exact my characterisation of Bruckner's organ works as "overstated". The point is that I'm not consider Bruckner as insignificant composer. I say that his activities in different fields of music art have different relative weight: as a composer of symphonies his impact is difficult to overstate, but as a creator of organ pieces it is no so, despite he was recognized performer and improviser during the life. And the word "overstated" appeared because there were no in Isabella's theses mentions of more important composers for organ (listed practically perfect in Acc post; earlier, nobody of us recalled name of Karg-Elert, whose subtle and subline but little known organ heritage is incomparabely more ponderable than of Bruckner's or Schumann's! Thank you, Acc! ).

    I'll try to plunge into exotic composers, as Thomas do , and I can recommend everybody such romantic LATVIAN composers as Alfreds Kalnins (stricking discovery to everyone, I suppose!), Jazeps Vitols, Adams Ore; LITHUANIAN -- Mikalojus Ciurlionis; ESTONIAN -- Peeter Suda, Michkel Luedig, Rudolf Tobias. I'm not from Baltic countries, but believe me, than music from there is something incredible, and not only romantic (especially, Latvian music)!

  14. #14
    Commodore con Forza
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    Quote Originally Posted by acc
    After that, one may argue whether, say, Duruflé still counts.
    Coming to think of it, there is another name on the opposite spectrum: A.P.F. Boëly, somewhere between classical and romantic. But his music sure is beautiful!

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    Lieutenant Commander, Concertmaster Izabella's Avatar
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    Hi there...
    I just wanted to thank you for your suggestions...
    I'll make sure to let you know how it turns out...

    thanx

    Yours respectfully
    Izabella

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