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GO randomize pipe speaking

e9925248

New member
There is some discussion about the future of the "randomize pipe speaking" option of GO.

Currently, if enabled, it detunes each started pipe with a random value up to +/- 1 cent.

There are proposals raising the limit up to +/- 4 (or +/-2) cent.

Other proposals are applying a static detuning for each pipe at load time (probably HW does it that way).

I would like to hear the options of our GO users.
 

ggoode.sa

New member
Hi,

The current system is an attempt to create a small randomization of the pitch to simulate the slightly different sound that a pipe will make each time that it is played (due to minute wind changes on the overall wind system). My personal opinion was that +/- 1 cent was more than adequate for this. More than 1 cent and then you're playing with temperaments.

A sampled instrument will cause aural fatigue (tired hearing) if it sounds the same all the time. HW does a random detune each time the sample set is loaded, but the feature of 'random detune' in GO affects the note each time it plays, and is therefore theoretically better as it brings in slight alterations to the sound of the sample each time that it is played. The 'random detune' in GO makes the instrument more lively over a longer period of time and helps prevent aural fatigue. Multiple samples also help reduce aural fatigue.

I'd say leave things as they are! If people also want a more energized difference each time an organ loads, then add that as a different feature.

Kind regards,
GrahamG
 

JLD

New member
The original intent is like Graham described and and the value used was +- 0.5 cent.

Because I did experiment, I realize that by mistake, the SF Windows version 1569 I uploaded is using +- 2 cents.
When randomize pipe speaking is checked, if you play a chord repeatedly, you might hear a different sound a certain time.
If we only hear differences from time to time, it means we need to slightly reduce the +-2 cents value.
If you uncheck randomize you should not hear differences when you play repeatedly chords.

Would be interested to hear from people who have downloaded SF Windows version 1569.

JL
 

ggoode.sa

New member
Hi,

At +- 2 cents we have the potential of a 4 cent difference between two in-tune samples (ok 1 chance in thousands, but it's there). More often the cent difference would be within 1 cent, but many would be closer to 2 cents. My partner has 'perfect pitch hearing' and with this situation I would be informed that "the organ keeps going out of tune while it is being played".... So I would advocate using a value less that +- 2 cents :)
 

JLD

New member
Fully agree with you Graham.
The reason I suggested to play chords to appreciate the difference in sounding while playing them repeatedly is because for most people (like myself), we probably can't detect a change of 4 cents on a fundamental pipe frequency (you need a perfect hear sensor and a perfect brain to get perfect hearing = almost no body ;-) ) but can probably hear the differences in inter-modulation when multiple pipes are played. This is also more representative of real playing.
Using +-1 cents is probably safe.

I would have enjoyed feedback from others on this matter which could contribute to make GO more enjoyable (less hearing fatigue) to play.

JL
 

L.Palo

New member
Hi!

In melodic passages a difference at +/- 2 cents is usually not detectable, but harmonically it's very obvious. Of course I'm extremely aware of this as I'm also trained in tuning pianos by ear, but more or less anyone can learn to hear it. The current value of 1 (+/- 0.5 cent) is not bothering me but anything more is not an enhancement, it's audible de-tuning especially bothering with repeated single intervals = we can currently have max 1 cent difference between outer interval. If you raise single note de-tuning to +/- 1 cent you get an interval difference of max 2 cents and this is trouble!

But hey, why not make the exact value an user configurable float? That way each taste can be satisfied. It's certainly easy to do...

Kind regards

Lars P
 

e9925248

New member
But hey, why not make the exact value an user configurable float? That way each taste can be satisfied. It's certainly easy to do...

I don't think, that this would be a wise decision.

Untrained people will probably raise it up to +/-4 or even more to notice any sound changes. Such recordings will probably get uploaded to youtube & Co. Professional musicians will probably conclude, that GO organs are out of tune.
 

Analogicus

Member
I don't think, that this would be a wise decision.

Untrained people will probably raise it up to +/-4 or even more to notice any sound changes. Such recordings will probably get uploaded to youtube & Co. Professional musicians will probably conclude, that GO organs are out of tune.

A solution would be to make it user-adjustable, but with a ceiling to how much.

Analogicus
 

JLD

New member
If we could agree on what is the value that would not be detected, even by trained hears, that value would be the ceiling but there would be no reason to go below that value either.
We currently have +- 0.5 cent max.
We agree that +-2 cents is probably too much.

I personally think it would be worth testing +-1 cent and keep it as a fixed value after verifying it is not detcted even by perfect hears.

JL
 
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