Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Bach-Trio Sonata no 6 BWV 530...Gert Van Hoef Concert

  1. #1
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso wljmrbill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Taylors, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    3,053
    Post Thanks / Like

    Bach-Trio Sonata no 6 BWV 530...Gert Van Hoef Concert

    ....To play only what is written is the domain of science. To realize what is not written is the domain of art."
    - Jean Langlais

    I wish you the Best for each day, now and always.

    Bill

  2. #2
    Captain of Water Music
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    373
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks for that Bill. Enjoyed listening.

  3. #3
    Captain of Water Music pcnd5584's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    252
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thank you for posting the clip, wljmrbill.

    Now this I did enjoy - it was well-paced and controlled, and with some reasonably good articulation.

    Whilst the registration may not have been 'authentic'*, it probably made it more interesting to listen to, from the point of view of the audience.



    * At the time of Bach, it was customary for such pieces to have been played using three contrasting unison voices (and not necessarily employing a 16ft. Pedal stop throughout, either - although most performers tend to do so).
    So-called 'gap'-registration was not a commonplace feature of contemporary Baroque performance practice.
    Last edited by pcnd5584; Jun-09-2014 at 14:28.
    Pierre Cochereau rocked, man.

  4. #4
    Captain of Water Music
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    373
    Post Thanks / Like
    pcnd, have not come across the term 'gap'-registration before. Please explain.

  5. #5
    Captain of Water Music pcnd5584's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    252
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikam View Post
    pcnd, have not come across the term 'gap'-registration before. Please explain.
    For example, the use (as Gert did in this performance) of 8ft. and 2ft. flutes - but without a 'bridging' 4ft. rank. Other examples are 8ft. and 1 1/3ft or 8ft. and 1ft.

    Pierre Cochereau rocked, man.

  6. #6
    Captain of Water Music
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    373
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks for the explanation, but now, nor have I come across a 1ft pipe.

  7. #7
    Captain of Water Music pcnd5584's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    252
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikam View Post
    Thanks for the explanation, but now, nor have I come across a 1ft pipe.
    We have a 1ft. Sifflute [sic] on the Positive Organ at the Minster, here. They are not very common - but not so rare, either. Clearly, the top octave breaks back - particularly since our instrument is of 61-note compass for the claviers. Used in conjunction with the Gedeckt (8ft.), the Quint (2 2/3ft.)m the Sifflute (1ft.) gives a beautiful bell-like tone, which is most useful in certain repertoire and in some choral accompaniments.

    There are a quite a number of instances of a stop at this pitch on continental European instruments - particularly in Germany.
    Last edited by pcnd5584; Jun-10-2014 at 17:07.
    Pierre Cochereau rocked, man.

  8. #8
    Captain of Water Music
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    373
    Post Thanks / Like
    Okay, thank you, but can you simplify your 3rd sentence as I don't understand that.

  9. #9
    Captain of Water Music pcnd5584's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    252
    Post Thanks / Like
    Top octave - due to the limitations of making the pipes small enough (and being able to hear that high, in order to tune it), it is customary for certain ranks (for example 1 1/3 ft. and 1ft.) to repeat the penultimate octave (up to the top of the keyboard). In any case, by this time, the pitch is so high, it is not particularly noticeable - particularly in combination.

    Mixtures are similar. For example, our IV-rank G.O. Mixture is arranged thus:

    C1 19-22-26-29
    C13 15-19-22-26
    C26 12-15-19-22
    C39 8-12-15-19
    C42 8-8-12-15

    So, whilst there is an ascendancy in pitch overall, the more acute ranks 'break back' (i.e. repeat a consonant lower pitch), to avoid either the pipes being too small or the sound only being audible to dogs and bats....
    Last edited by pcnd5584; Jun-11-2014 at 01:06.
    Pierre Cochereau rocked, man.

  10. #10
    Captain of Water Music
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    373
    Post Thanks / Like
    Light is dawning! Thank you for the explanation.

  11. #11
    Captain of Water Music pcnd5584's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    252
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikam View Post
    Light is dawning! Thank you for the explanation.
    You \re welcome.

    It should also be said that there are certain compound (mixture) stops which do not break back. For example, the Cornet - which could commence at 12-15-17, 8-12-15-17 or 1-8-12-15-17, depending on the total number of ranks it contains. Of course, there are also examples which add ranks as they ascend the compass, viz.:

    C13: 12-15-17
    G20: 8-12-15-17
    C26: 1-8-12-15-17
    Such a stop would normally be engraved 'CORNET III-V'.

    It will be noticed that this stop is not of full compass. A Cornet often goes only as low as C26, but there are many examples which extend to G20 or even C13. This is because its primary intended function is as a solo stop and Cornet solos were not usually written to go below C26 - certainly not G20. The reason for this is that generally, any lower than this and the constituent pitches tend to fall apart, instead of cohering into a resultant, reedy sound.

    A Sesquialtera is another example which does not break back. A stop of this nature will usually commence at 12-17 and continue throughout the compass of the clavier. The pipes may be wide-scaled flutes, with good blending properties or they may be of a rather narrower scale (for example the North German Baroque Sesquialtera) which is, once again, intended as a solo stop - although naturally it will require the addition of a unison stop (such a s a Rohrflöte or Stopped Diapason) and probably also a 4ft. flute - again, often composed of stopped pipes.


    There are also Cavaillé-Coll's 'progressive' mixtures, which also did not break back. Like some Cornet stops, ranks were added at various points in the compass. However, these stops would not normally have included mutations higher than the Tierce. A colleague has stated that Cavaillé-Coll also included the flat twenty-first (1 1/7ft. - the Septième) in such stops. However, I have yet to find an example which has this very audible - and very anti-social pitch in its composition.

    There are also higher-pitched compound stops which break back more often, such as the Cymbale (or Cymbal - or even Cimbel or Zimbel). Whist there are a number of examples which contain a tierce rank at some pitch (perhaps commencing at 33-38-40, as a 'Terz-Zimbel'), many English examples contain only unison and quint ranks. There is a superb example on the Positive Organ of my 'own' church instrument, the composition of which is roughly:

    C1: 29-33-36
    A10: 26-29-33
    F18: 22-26-29
    D27: 19-22-26
    B36: 15-19-22
    G44: 12-15-19
    This stop is intended to cap the Positive chorus. When this full chorus (with the Cymbal) is added to the G.O. chorus, the effect is electrifying. The distinguished organ critic, Cecil Clutton likened it to listening to a large Baroque instrument in some great church in the Netherlands.

    Incidentally, with regard to Post Nr. 9 above, the last two breaks should of course read:

    C37: 8-12-15-19
    C49: 8-8-12-15

    For some reason the 'edit' facility becomes unavailable after a few hours - which is not particularly useful. This does not happen on any of the other boards of which I am either a member or a moderator/administrator, and there have never been any security issues as a result of this. Why does this happen here?
    Last edited by pcnd5584; Jun-12-2014 at 01:12. Reason: 9;
    Pierre Cochereau rocked, man.

  12. Likes wljmrbill liked this post
  13. #12
    Captain of Water Music
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    373
    Post Thanks / Like
    pcnd, thank you for covering so much in your detailed explanations; they've been of considerable help in increasing my understanding.

  14. #13
    Captain of Water Music pcnd5584's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    252
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikam View Post
    pcnd, thank you for covering so much in your detailed explanations; they've been of considerable help in increasing my understanding.
    Thank you, Nikam. You are welcome.
    Pierre Cochereau rocked, man.

  15. #14
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso wljmrbill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Taylors, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    3,053
    Post Thanks / Like
    I concur Nikam,,,Thanks for explanation PCND
    ....To play only what is written is the domain of science. To realize what is not written is the domain of art."
    - Jean Langlais

    I wish you the Best for each day, now and always.

    Bill

  16. #15
    Captain of Water Music pcnd5584's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    252
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by wljmrbill View Post
    I concur Nikam,,,Thanks for explanation PCND
    You are welcome, wljmrbill.
    Pierre Cochereau rocked, man.

Similar Threads

  1. Gert Van Hoef performs on 1860 Organ in Amsterdam
    By wljmrbill in forum Pipe Organ Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Feb-09-2014, 09:08
  2. Multi talented Gert van Hoef
    By branchporter in forum Pipe Organ Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: May-02-2013, 05:16
  3. Live video from Concert by Gert Van Hoef..
    By wljmrbill in forum Pipe Organ Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Apr-27-2013, 08:19
  4. Hendrik Andriessen 'Premier Choral' - Gert van Hoef
    By wljmrbill in forum Pipe Organ Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Feb-15-2013, 01:55
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: Dec-17-2012, 08:18

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •