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Problem with some samples

mr3sn

New member
Friends,

Working with some demo samples, I encountered problems with some specific ranks. Please look into disposition below, where I included a correct and problematic rank.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kd8pf6ggrdpkpgg/GO-DN-test.zip

The point on the problematic rank (rank2) is that some keys continue to sound even when the key or stop is disabled. It's only a problem on some keys, not all. At rank1 I don't find this problem.

Organ loaded in Stereo, 20 bits, all loops, all attacks, all releases, 48000Hz, Release Tail Length on Max.

When I reduce the Release Tail Length to 50 ms, the problem seems to dissapear on my pc, however I don't understand where the problem is.

Is the problem in the samples or do I have a mistake in the ODF?

Best regards,
Dries
 

L.Palo

New member
From your description it sounds as if some of the samples in the problematic rank lack release markers (cue markers) for the release. Check the offending notes samples in for instance LoopAuditioneer to see if that's the case. It's possible to specify the releases in the ODF too, both by using separate release files and to specify the release cue position in a sample if you don't want/can modify the sample itself.

Kind regards

Lars P
 
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mr3sn

New member
Hi Lars,

I looked with loopauditioneer to all the samples. If the release Cue point is a green dotted line with M1 in the top, no of the samples have this. Both the good working samples and the problematic samples. So there must be another reason why one rank is working fine, while the other is giving this problems?

BR, Dries
 

e9925248

New member
The descriptions sounds like these samples contain a very long release part. If you release a key, GO starts playing the complete release - regardless of its length.
You should check for cue marks, which are too far away from the sample end.

GO offers various ODF options to override invalid sample meta-data.
 

mr3sn

New member
Problem is that I see no cue markers at all, not in the good samples, not in the bad samples. What is GO doing at key release when cue marker is missing?
 

L.Palo

New member
If there are no cue markers then I guess you have separate release samples for the files. In such case GO plays them (the release samples) from the beginning (provided there are no cue markers present in them). If you don't have a cue marker for the release in the sample file containing the attack/sustain and no separate release sample specified GO will simply play from the current position until sample ends when releasing a key. (again it's possible to specify (override) the release position from within the ODF too)

Kind regards

Lars P
 
Last edited:

L.Palo

New member
Having actually downloaded and tested your organ I agree that many things are strange and possibly some small bugs can be identified.

Rank1 does indeed not have any cue markers but still stop playing when key is released. Some samples of rank2 does have markers but they are stored in a strange format that's not standard and thus cannot be shown in LoopAuditioneer. The samples that have issues with the release (in rank 2) are they who show up as if there should be a release in them (but no standard cue marker is present).

Kind regards

Lars P
 

mr3sn

New member
Hi Lars,

Thank you for looking into the samples. What I understand is that the strange format markers are not recognized by GO and Loopauditioneer.
Are these possibly some small bugs something in GO that can be solved in the future?

And will this "simply play from the current position until sample ends when a key is released" overuled by the Release Tail Length when the organ is loaded?

BR, Dries
 

e9925248

New member
Some samples contain no cue marker - so GO does not play any release.
Either define one (Pipe999CuePoint) or load an external release, if you want.

The other samples define a loop start as release point - so the release playback includes a full loop. Either define a cue point (Pipe999CuePoint) or disable loading the release (Pipe999LoadRelease) [with/without loading an external release].
 

mr3sn

New member
Ok thanks, this is clear to me. The problems are in the samples. But because they come from a sample set with multi release samples, the problem only appears when you try to use without this release samples.

What is the best way (in this case) to load without release sample?

- In the audio settings, for load release samples, I can select all or one, "none" isn't an option.
- I added Pipe999LoadRelease=N to every pipe of the problematic rank, this solves the problem.
- Maybe I can set the Release Tail Length to minimum of 50 ms?

Without release because I use Reaper convolution reverb to create reverb and surround.

BR, Dries
 

mr3sn

New member
Would it be a benefit in future when we have in the audio settings, for load release samples, beside all or one, also the option "none" ?
 

e9925248

New member
Would it be a benefit in future when we have in the audio settings, for load release samples, beside all or one, also the option "none" ?

No. The GO settings are not the correct place to fix broken samples.
 

mr3sn

New member
Not to fix broken samples. For people who want to work with external reverb/vst and need to load without any release from the samples?
 

L.Palo

New member
I think the correct way to do that would be to use the reverb tail shortening feature as it was added mainly for that reason (to remove release reverb and make it possible to add external or play in a reverbrant room). I'm a bit surprised that the playback ending at all works without a release defined (when it's not a percussive sample). Apparently the playback mechanism currently jumps to what when the playback ends? Nothing? I assume it just crossfades current playback position with zeros until the sample is gone, but this seems like un-documented behaviour and possibly not even not intended. Normally I'd expect every pipe that's not percussive to have at least one release defined.

Kind regards

Lars P
 

mr3sn

New member
What is the idea behind the list from 50..3000ms and max for shortening the reverb tail?
Is completely dry not possible since 0ms is no option? Or is 50ms close enough....
I'm still in favour to add a none option for the load release samples in audio settings if possible.
Is there a (technical) disadvantage to include this option ?

BR, Dries
 

e9925248

New member
Even for the dryest organ, any pipe will not stop sounding abruptly. Just listen to a sample-set without releases - reverb just papers over of that.
 
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