First post (and question)

[ParryHotter]

Greetings everyone,

As the topic states, this is my first new post !

I'm new to the whole organ scene. I've played piano for about 16 years now, and consider myself to be a very good pianist who enjoys playing (but would not like to make a career out of it). After moving to St. Paul in January, I got recruited by a local church to accompany a choir. Midway through March I found I would have to play organ for a couple pieces, and after never thinking much of the instrument before, immediately fell in love with it. I had never heard a "good" organ played live before then, and now I'm hooked.

Anyway, my question is this:

Could anybody recommend some easy pieces to help me develop my pedaling technique? I haven't had any technical problems playing with my hands, but boy those pedals make things tough. Also, how high should the bench be, and how far away from the pedals (nobody ever showed me where to sit )

Thanks much

[Thomas Dressler]

It's difficult to learn organ technique without a teacher, but I'll try to give you some basic starting points.

When it comes to pedal technique, the first thing to do is isolate the pedals alone without the hands, to learn some technique. Then you have to learn to coordinate your feet with your hands. Usually, the most difficult part of this is left hand and pedal, so I would do exercises for left hand and pedal, and right hand and pedal until you get some coordination, then try all three.

What you need is a good method book or two. The one I would recommend the most would be Method of Organ Playing by Harold Gleason. This book has lots of pedal exercises and explains how they are played. (You need to learn to play with your toes and your heels, and to pass the feet in front of and behind one another as you alternate toes.) Another good book is Organ Technique: Modern and Early by Ritchie and Stauffer. This one teaches the different kinds of technique for Baroque and later music, and also has lots of exercises and explanation. It is really important to focus on pedal exercises in order to learn good technique. Best of all would be to do this with a teacher helping you.

You also need to learn the different touch of playing the organ. If you like Bach, I'd recommend the two part inventions on the organ manuals. Then, once you've mastered some pedal technique, I'd try one or two pieces from his Orgelbuechlein, which are short, and use pedals. (Nun komm der Heiden Heiland, for instance.) I'd also move into trying a movement from the six trio sonatas for organ. Learning to play trios on the organ is a difficult challenge, but necessary if you really want to learn to coordinate your playing. You can practice the trios two parts at a time, especially left hand and pedal.

As far as how to sit, well, there are differing opinions on this. I have recently changed my own opinion and sit with a higher bench than I used to. I try to sit high enough that my elbows are higher than the playing surface of the keys of the Great manual. This is pretty high, though, on modern instruments. Another thing to take into consideration when deciding how high to sit is the kind of pedal technique you will be using. You sit higher for old pedal technique. If you're playing a tracker action organ with a flat pedalboard (do you know what that is?) you sit high enough that your toes easily reach the pedals. On a more modern instrument, with concave, radiating pedals, and if you're using modern toe-heel technique, you need to sit low enough that you can easily use your heels. This is mostly too low for early technique.

YOu mention that you are fluent in piano technique, so you can experiment and find what feels right. You need to find a sitting height that accomodates your needs at the manuals with your needs on the pedals. Sometimes it's a real challenge, but once you are used to the technique (and be forewarned, it can takes years) you can adjust to different kinds of benches.

I hope this helps some, but I do recomment finding a reputable teacher. Let us know if there are any other specific questions we might be able to help with! And it's TERRIFIC that you are so interested in the organ! If you mention what kind of organ you are playing, it might be possible to give more specific ideas.

[ParryHotter]

Thanks a lot for the informative (and quick ! ) reply!

I'll be able to tell you more after tomorow morning's practice session. The church I practice at has really been more than generous with me, allowing me to use their organ and their great 7' Steinway to practice essentially whenever I want to. I'll probably ask the Music Minister if he can help me out a little bit with technique too (his primary instrument in college was the organ), but I doubt he'd give me regular lessons.

This should help out a lot. Because of my "limited" knowledge of organ repertoire, (Bach's more famous Toccata and Fugue), it was the first organ piece I attempted. I can play the Toccata very well, but the Fugue pedaling really gave me headaches.

Thanks again !

[ParryHotter]

Ok, here's the organ info:

Its a Holtkamp organ made somewhere around 1991. 3 manuals, full radiating pedalboard, and 31 stops.

[Thomas Dressler]

Ah, ok. I am making the assumption, then, that you are working with a mechanical, or tracker action organ.

One important thing that you must not forget, is that playing with the feet is not the ONLY difference between the organ and the piano. There is one other extremely important thing that many, many musicians forget, and it makes them unable to play a tracker organ sensitively. When you play a piano and strike the keys, that's exactly what you do--STRIKE. You are playing for the bottom of the keystroke and the all important matter is how you hit the keybed. Spend some time on your organ pressing the keys very slowly and gently. Become aware of the fact that the sensitive spot is near the TOP of the keystroke. You could hit the keybed with a sledgehammer and it will make no difference. As a matter of fact, many times people with too much of a piano mentality do play as if they are using sledgehammers! Ok, become very sensitive to this spot where the pallets open under the pipes. This is your point of sensitivity on the organ, and you need to become very aware of it, and ALWAYS, ALWAYS play this plucking point, and not the keybeds. This is probably the most abused and neglected aspect of pipe organ playing. If the action is not mechanical, you can hammer away like you're playing a piano and the organ will not react, but on a tracker, you need to be SENSITIVE.

Now spend some time focusing on how you RELEASE the notes--how you CLOSE the pallet, in that same general plucking point. A more attractive sound is produced by SLOWLY controlling the release. This is even more difficult to master, but it is CRITICAL in sensitive organ playing.

These same things are true of how you play the pedals, so along with learning the basic pedalling techniques, be aware of HOW you attack and release the notes. Since you are playing on a modern type pedalboard, you will need to sit with the bench lower, especially if you're going to use modern toe-heel technique. Be aware, though, that in pedaling the toes have more control than the heels. If you are going to learn to play Baroque music with proper articulation, you tend to need the control of toe-toe (with foot crossing) rather than toe-heel technique.

Also, I forgot to mention before that I think hymns make excellent learning pieces. You can practice the bass line with the feet alone, left-hand and pedal, right-hand and pedal, everything. You can play it with hands alone, and practice your manual technique. . .excellent practice pieces.

I hope these things help! Feel free to ask any more questions you might have, and let us know how you do!

[ParryHotter]

Hi, sorry I guess I should have found out what type of organ it was earlier, but I didn't know there were different types! I just researched the different types a little bit and deduced that this particular organ is an electro-pneumatic action. Will that make a difference in how I should go about playing it? I'll try your suggestions out anyway. Thanks for all your help!

ps. I just ordered Gleason's method book yesterday, it should be here tomorrow !

[Thomas Dressler]

If the action is electro-pneumatic, you will still find that the speaking point is more near the top of the keystroke than at the keybed, however you will have no control over how the pipe speaks or releases. I feel that one plays more expressively and cleanly on an EP action with this awareness, even though it doesn't matter so much. You can strike the key with the intention of hitting the keybed just like piano technique, and it will not affect the pluck or release of the notes, but I find the playing to be at least less clean and perhaps less expressive.

If you're really interested in learning to play the organ as an instrument, my best advice would be to spend time learning on a tracker. It's kind of like learning to drive on a manual transmission. You can always easily switch to automatic, but not the other way around. Same with organ actions. However, if you can't find a tracker to spend time with, you'll have lots of interesting things to learn on your present instrument, especially once you have your Gleason book!

Feel free to write if there are any questions about what's in the book. I have an older edition of it, and I'm not sure what changes have been made, but I know there's a lot to absorb. Keep in mind that there are different approaches to technique, and once you get into this, I recommend the Ritchie-Stauffer book to learn about early technique as well. But you'll find lots of information about pedal technique and exercises in the Gleason.

Have fun with all of this and keep us posted!

[yury habrus]

I can recommend to play "Neumeister collection" of Bach instead of "Orgelbuchlein", which is too difficult for the beginner. Chorales and free works of Johann Pachelbel, Franz Xaver Murschhauser, Caspar Ferdinand Fischer, Johann Jacob Froberger, Johann Speth will also more than useful. Teaching of so difficult pieces as Trio-sonates of Bach should be replaced for later. If you'll decide to study trio technique I recommed wonderful and very easy 11 trios of Georg Andreas Sorge.

[ParryHotter]

After much anticipation, my method book made the slow crawl from New Jersey to my home in St. Paul MN. Can't wait to try it out tomoroww morning !

[Thomas Dressler]

I hope you enjoy the book and what you'll be learning!

Yury, I agree with what you're saying, however one does need to guage the music to the student. Truthfully, it's impossible to make good suggestions without actually hearing the person play, but since ParryHotter suggested he was fairly advanced on the piano, I made the kinds of suggestions I would make to someone who already reads music well and can play fairly advanced pieces with his hands. Yes, many Orgelbuechlein pieces are difficult, but some are not. I learned Nun komm der Heiden Heiland when I was 13 and just beginning to learn pedal technique. Wenn wir in hoechsten Noeten sein is also not too difficult if you already have some manual technique. Yes, the trio sonatas are very challenging to say the least, but some movements are moderately so. I learned the last movement of the first one when I was about 14. It really all depends on the person. But you are correct, the Sorge trios are wonderful, and almost never played here in the US. I have performed a couple of them several times in recitals, and I enjoy them very much.

We do know that Bach himself, as a teacher, would get his students right into difficult pieces, and I tend to take this approach myself if the student is motivated. Even the trio sonatas can be broken down into easier chunks of learning by not trying to play all three parts at first.

Since ParryHotter is not working with a teacher, he will have to decide which challenges he can handle by himself.

At any rate, best wishes with your work!

[kas]

Tom - I am also in PA! I see from your website you are near New Hope. I'm up above Reading. Yes, the Gleason book is excellent. I've been using this with my one (and only) organ student. As to pedaling, you may have noticed my (very) first post here. My student is also having trouble adding pedals to the manual parts, but her pedaling on its own is really something for a beginner. As I said...can hit any note, doesn't have to look down a bit. This is almost scary...such potential if she can get the coordination to come. As she put it, she's not good at 'multi-tasking'! It'll come, with work.

Take care,
KAS

[Thomas Dressler]

WOW! Someone from nearby! Actually, I only work down by New Hope. I live in the Poconos, between Allentown and Wilkes-Barre. I was just in Bethlehem last week at a conference on the Tannenberg clavichord in Nazareth. . .

As I mentioned in the other post, try to do just one hand at a time with the pedals. If you don't have trios to work with, then a simple hymn tune might work. I bet right hand and pedal won't be nearly as difficult as left hand and pedal.

Let us know how this works out!



Tom (a fellow Pennsylvanian!)

[kas]

Ah yes! The poconos. Swiftwater, Tannersville....love that area. My dad has a timeshare up at Tafton (Lake Wallenpaupack area). I grew up boating there as a perennial summer pastime. Thanks again. We'll work on hymns - I KNOW the right hand will go easier for her with the pedal. Have you ever done the Choral movement from Vierne's 2nd organ symphony? I think this is a neat piece of music (a bit dissonant of course) - tough though (at least for me!) I'm working on it from time to time. I still have trouble coordinating pedal and manuals with more difficult music.

Best,
KAS

[Thomas Dressler]

Looks like you know my neck of the woods! I'm not too far from Lake Harmony.

I have not played much Vierne, but have recently started playing around with some of it. He certainly was an inventive composer. . . I'm not home at the moment, so I don't have my scores and can't comment on the 2nd symphony, but I do know that working on left hand and pedal exercises, or working on trios help an awful lot with hand/feet coordination.

BTW, it's even hot in the mountains these days. . .

Tom