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Thread: Grand Orgue samples/buffer, keying, and reverb

  1. #1
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    Grand Orgue samples/buffer, keying, and reverb

    Hi All:
    After many years of playing GO, I eventually have discovered the following:
    1:s/buffer setting lower than 1024 results in the CR not working.
    2. s/buffer setting at 1024 (max) there is a an electronic popping as the key is depressed, but the CR works.
    3. s/buffer setting at 512, the popping stops, but the CR stops working.
    4. I'm using large sample set OMNI, but I've noticed this in small sets also.(1-3 are true)
    5. What kind of conflict is going on between s/buffer, keying, and the CRev. I've tried Lars' IRs, but no difference.
    6. I'm using GOvers 2171ASIO on Win7pro, multichannel speakers. These is no CPU overload. RAM is 8gig
    Can someone please resolve this. Would like to have clean keying with a good reverb.
    Thanks, Ken Barta krbar@verizon.net

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    Hi All:
    After many years of playing GO, I eventually have discovered the following:
    1:s/buffer setting lower than 1024 results in the CR not working.
    2. s/buffer setting at 1024 (max) there is a an electronic popping as the key is depressed, but the CR works.
    3. s/buffer setting at 512, the popping stops, but the CR stops working.
    4. I'm using large sample set OMNI, but I've noticed this in small sets also.(1-3 are true)
    5. What kind of conflict is going on between s/buffer, keying, and the CRev. I've tried Lars' IRs, but no difference.
    6. I'm using GOvers 2171ASIO on Win7pro, multichannel speakers. These is no CPU overload. RAM is 8gig
    Can someone please resolve this. Would like to have clean keying with a good reverb.
    Thanks, Ken Barta krbar@verizon.net
    You say the CPU is not overloaded. Are you sure? Sounds like it to me. What is the CPU anyway? You've used a lot of language in your post very specific to GO. I have a lot of knowledge of VPO's in general but it is not that specific. 8 gig of ram is plenty for jorgan but it is middling for HW and GO. Especially if you want to use internal reverb.

  3. #3
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    Yes, I have meters on the CPU and RAM. 8 gig RAM is small for HW, but fine for GO. The popping I hear does not sound like overload, because I get it on even one note and one stop.

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    I began having the same problem when I used sample sets with long release samples stored in separate .wav files. The popping sound would occur even on one note. At first I resolved this issue by trimming the release tail, but eventually I decided that I wanted to hear the entire release.

    I did a little research, so I'm not an expert at all on this subject, and, in fact, I might have it all wrong, but I found a solution that works for me. I welcome anyone with more knowledge to please correct any misinformation I post here.

    I think the popping sounds are caused by Xruns, that is, under- or overruns of data in the buffer. That indicates the processor is not handling the data in the buffer quickly enough. So I don't think the amount of RAM has anything to do with it.

    I'm running GO on a fairly old Dell laptop with a duo core processor on Linux Mint 17.3. I also don't use CR. I use zita-rev1 to provide reverb.

    I lowered the buffers to 256, increased the number of cores to 6 and the workload distribution to 5. I had read that it is ok to increase these numbers beyond the number of cores actual processor has. Not sure if that's true but it seemed to help. I also changed the sample size to 16 bits and the sample rate to 44100. Again, I'm not sure if that was necessary. So the result was that I can use the max release tail and I don't have any of the popping sounds. I'm not sure which of the changes I made were actually necessary, but together they have resolved the issue for me.

    If anyone has a better resolution for the issue, please let me/us know.

    Tom

  5. #5
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    Oops. Now that I reread this, I'm not sure that decreasing buffer size helps with xRuns, but it does decrease latency.

    So, I'll hope for some more knowledgeable advice from someone.

  6. #6
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    Hi Tom
    Thanks for your info. At least you've come up with a term "x-runs",to describe this artifact. I'll also look into Zita. I might ask for help in using/installing.
    Ken

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbpr View Post
    Oops. Now that I reread this, I'm not sure that decreasing buffer size helps with xRuns, but it does decrease latency.

    So, I'll hope for some more knowledgeable advice from someone.
    The following article might be interesting reading for you and Ken.

    https://www.presonus.com/community/L...-Audio-Latency

    I could be wrong but, meters and such notwithstanding, if buffers are configured correctly and the system is still unstable, the only solution is a more powerful processor. That, or a less demanding application.
    Last edited by Leisesturm; Mar-21-2017 at 23:13.

  8. #8
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    Who said the system is still unstable?

  9. #9
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    Grand Orgue vs. Hauptwerk

    I should hasten to add that the artifacts in this thread and my other post about Bx controller problems are all specific to Grand Orgue. I have Hauptwerk installed on the exact same system, and I do not have "x-runs", initial keying "pops", or Bx controller or other device-detect problems. But I only use Hauptwerk to check the system against Grand Orgue. I don't really use HW because of the expense, the built-in inflexibility of only what is provided in a disposition, and the enormous sample size-RAM problem. Grand Orgue is a fabulous alternative to Hauptwerk, if it were just optimized and the artifacts and housekeeping problems were addressed.
    I would give jOrgan another try, but I always had trouble having more than 1 keyboard+pedal. Couldn't detect or setup 2nd keyboard.
    Ken Barta krbar@verizon.net New Jersey USA

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