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Thread: Opinions on modern music

  1. #91
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    There is some really good *modern* classical music being written these days. Of course, there is still too much junk that needs to be deposited into the shredder...
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  2. #92
    Captain of Water Music some guy's Avatar
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    Even were any of this granted, which I don't...


    ...who gets to decide?

  3. #93
    Captain of Water Music Montefalco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corno Dolce View Post
    There is some really good *modern* classical music being written these days. Of course, there is still too much junk that needs to be deposited into the shredder...
    What would you consider to be the junk written these days?

  4. #94
    Captain of Water Music Ouled Nails's Avatar
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    I always feel like I'm doing research in some archives with Montefalco. I see someguy is posting here too and it's a fine opportunity to reconsider my own position, to revisit an old theme, to demand more precision from my own mind.

    position no. 1: a good work of music is like a good book: the author is sharing her/his grey matter in a most intimate manner and, for that reason, "copycats" just won't have much of an impact. So, a good work, whatever the style, will involve dragging you in there intellectually and emotionally, becoming part of the mental process. If you're drawn, not by style, but by the artistic exercise, then the author has succeeded. If you resist, from the onset, because of preconceived ideas about "style" then you won't be drawn into the work, will you?

    position no. 2: in every walk of life one finds all kinds of personalities, from the superficial self-actualizer to the isolated self-reflecting individual who is utterly oblivious to public reaction. Style does not guarantee depth, any style. Remain evaluative within a style, not of a whole style.

    position no. 3: some things are best expressed in a given style. If you're conveying in music your response to/ impression or experience of millions of people being butchered then romanticism is not the best style. If you wish to express musically breathing northern lights in places very far removed from the great artistic capital of this world, you had bettere have experienced these northern lights from very close, not from Berlin, Vienna, or Rome conservatories! If you wish to express, as accurately as humanly possible, the unique bird songs of the Grand Canyon, oh no, don't rely on all the unnatural sounds generated to entertain the royalties of Europe!!!

    position no. 4: the spiritual in music is very personal and to follow any conventional model can potentially defeat the personal expressio of spirituality. After all, it's a vision quest, isn't it, not a quest for public approval.

  5. #95
    Captain of Water Music Ouled Nails's Avatar
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    But, in the end, all of these positions are mere philosophical opinions because Mr. Dollar rules and Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker will remain a favorite at Christmas time, and Mr. Prokofiev's Peter and the Wolf will draw far more people, families, than his more "esoteric" works, because it's all about entertainment, not about spirituality, realism, or intellectual depth, because we're just happy with a recognizable repertoire and we want to assess how this 76th performance of the same work measures up to the others. C'est nous. This is who we are.

  6. #96
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Hi Montefalco,

    I'll send you a private message with some thoughts I have.

    Cheers,

    CD
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  7. #97
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by some guy View Post
    Even were any of this granted, which I don't...


    ...who gets to decide?
    Hello someguy,

    You ask a fantabulous question - For some, it is the editors/ contributors of the cultural columns belonging to the major flagship dailies in America's biggest cities - Heaven forfend if their tenderly precious *oral diarrhea* comes into question. Yea, for they are the ajudicators of what is fine culture and music. NOT!!!

    Respectfully submitted,

    CD
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  8. #98
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouled Nails View Post
    I always feel like I'm doing research in some archives with Montefalco. I see someguy is posting here too and it's a fine opportunity to reconsider my own position, to revisit an old theme, to demand more precision from my own mind.

    position no. 1: a good work of music is like a good book: the author is sharing her/his grey matter in a most intimate manner and, for that reason, "copycats" just won't have much of an impact. So, a good work, whatever the style, will involve dragging you in there intellectually and emotionally, becoming part of the mental process. If you're drawn, not by style, but by the artistic exercise, then the author has succeeded. If you resist, from the onset, because of preconceived ideas about "style" then you won't be drawn into the work, will you?

    position no. 2: in every walk of life one finds all kinds of personalities, from the superficial self-actualizer to the isolated self-reflecting individual who is utterly oblivious to public reaction. Style does not guarantee depth, any style. Remain evaluative within a style, not of a whole style.

    position no. 3: some things are best expressed in a given style. If you're conveying in music your response to/ impression or experience of millions of people being butchered then romanticism is not the best style. If you wish to express musically breathing northern lights in places very far removed from the great artistic capital of this world, you had bettere have experienced these northern lights from very close, not from Berlin, Vienna, or Rome conservatories! If you wish to express, as accurately as humanly possible, the unique bird songs of the Grand Canyon, oh no, don't rely on all the unnatural sounds generated to entertain the royalties of Europe!!!

    position no. 4: the spiritual in music is very personal and to follow any conventional model can potentially defeat the personal expressio of spirituality. After all, it's a vision quest, isn't it, not a quest for public approval.
    Blessed ON,

    I could not have said it better myself.

    Cheers,

    CD
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  9. #99
    Captain of Water Music some guy's Avatar
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    Corno, I invite you to take responsibility for your own assertions.

    What is the "really good *modern* classical music being written these days"?

    What is the "junk that needs to be deposited into the shredder..."

  10. #100
    Chief assistant to the assistant chief JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by some guy View Post
    Even were any of this granted, which I don't...


    ...who gets to decide?
    You have to decide for yourself, rightly or wrongly it is a personal choice if I don't like it I don't purchase it, if that upsets anyone "tough baby tough" If composers keep writing music that appeals to a small minority that's up to them.

  11. #101
    Admiral of Fugues Contratrombone64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by some guy View Post
    Corno, I invite you to take responsibility for your own assertions.

    What is the "really good *modern* classical music being written these days"?

    What is the "junk that needs to be deposited into the shredder..."
    I agree ... can't wait for a response
    I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God.
    —Albert Einstein.

  12. #102
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by some guy View Post
    Corno, I invite you to take responsibility for your own assertions.

    What is the "really good *modern* classical music being written these days"?

    What is the "junk that needs to be deposited into the shredder..."
    Hi someguy,

    I'll send you a note with some thoughts.

    Cheers,

    CD
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  13. #103
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Ok everyone, I'll bite........

    Morten Lauridsen's *O Magnum Mysterium* does wonders for the stricken soul.

    Tikhon Khrennikov's *Завод* (Factory) An unenlightened paean to the factory workers collective. Tikhon Khrennikov was the chief music critic employed by Stalin. Khrennikov viciously *shot down* many of the works of Shostakovich. Khrennikov's utterances almost sent Shostakovich to Stalin's death camps in the far Eastern reaches of Siberia.

    It is interesting to note that the music of Shostakovich is such a firm part of the Orchestral Canon(repertoire) whilst Khrennikov is forgotten in the dustbin of history.

    To be continued?........

    Or maybe its *gang-up on CD time*

    Ps. J.H.C. provides a definite antidote in his latest assertion *If it upsets anyone else, then "Tough baby tough"*
    Last edited by Corno Dolce; Jun-12-2010 at 04:36.
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  14. #104
    Vice Admiral Virtuoso rojo's Avatar
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    (Personally, I only use my shredder to dispose of incriminating evidence. )
    ''Music, I feel, should be emotional first and intellectual second.'' - Maurice Ravel
    ''The greatest education in the world is watching the masters at work.'' - Michael Jackson


  15. #105
    Chief assistant to the assistant chief JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rojo View Post
    (Personally, I only use my shredder to dispose of incriminating evidence. )
    Entirely your choice.

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