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Thread: Hymn Preludes

  1. #1
    Ensign, Principal Simon Jansfort's Avatar
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    Hymn Preludes

    I'm not quite sure what these things are called in english, but this is just an idea I got.

    Why not share our hymn preludes with each others? I have a few that I composed myself (not complicated though) and I would like to share them with you.

    Now first and foremost, I'm not sure how many melodies we share between the countries, but I believe it's quite a few. Especially in Scandinavia. Denmark and the US is more doubtful. But let's try, I say!

    How this should be done technically, I can only put out an idea.

    You print you're sheet of music with the prelude in pdf format. If you don't know how, refer to this: http://www.pdf995.com/

    Then you upload it to your post by using the atachement function.
    That's how I'd do it.


    Is this something people will use? I'd like to get some talk going on preludes, that's for sure!


    Simon
    http://www.jansfort.com - A work in progress.
    http://blog.jansfort.com - my blog. Quite new.
    Both in danish

  2. #2
    Administrator Krummhorn's Avatar
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    Simon,

    Are you perhaps referring to 'hymn preludes', composed by members of MIMF?
    -- or --
    'Improvisations' based upon known hymn tunes that are used in many countries?

    I do improvisations that are my own creations, but not based upon any known (that I am aware of) published tune.

    I have also taken established hymn tune melodies and fashioned them into a meditative piece for service music filler. Unfortunately, they were 'on the spot' things and not recorded (I now have a digital recorder nearby) so I am having to re-create them in notation software from memory, and those are work in progress, far from being ready, imho, from public disecting.

    This will be a fun and interesting thread to follow and see how it develops.

    Lars

  3. #3
    Admiral of Fugues Contratrombone64's Avatar
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    Simon, hvad er det paa dansk (orden)? tak Ogsaa, min dansk er ikke so godt, men jeg kan forstaa en lille.

  4. #4
    Ensign, Principal Simon Jansfort's Avatar
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    In Denmark a ceremony consist of several thing, one of them being hymns.

    To lead up to the hymns (ex. after a reading from the bible) the organist (me) playes a short intro, maybe consisting of some of the melody from the hymn or something completely different. This is a tradition.

    You don't have anything like that?

    What Krummhorn is talking about is entire pieces composed on top of a theme being a hymn melody. That is not entirely what I'm talking about, but that could be interesting to talk about too!

    In Denmark they are called "salme forspil".

    Thanks
    Simon
    http://www.jansfort.com - A work in progress.
    http://blog.jansfort.com - my blog. Quite new.
    Both in danish

  5. #5
    Administrator Krummhorn's Avatar
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    Simon,

    In my Lutheran church here, which I am also a member of and have been their organist since 1982, we use set liturgical responses to Bible readings. The only time I have for improvisation are just after the Prelude and only if the cleric hasn't entered the church yet. The gathering hymn is after the absolution, followed by the Kyrie, Gloria, Psalmody and Gospel Acclamations.

    In the 'olden days' of the Lutheran church here, we had sufficient time to add more music in the form of voluntaries and such before hymns ... these days, it seems we are more bound to the clock than to the purpose of sacred worship, so we are then limited to exactly 60 minutes start to finish, which doesn't allow for too much extra music ... if we add 4 minutes of music, then something else is immediately cut, usually hymn verses or a scripture lesson. Oh how I would long to have the flexibility and the organs as you have in Denmark - someday, I'll get there for a vacation.

    Lars
    Kh ~~.
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  6. #6
    Midshipman, Forte
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Jansfort View Post
    In Denmark they are called "salme forspil".
    I ├ęt ord, ikke?

    Sorry...

  7. #7
    Ensign, Principal Simon Jansfort's Avatar
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    Haha, yeah it is in one word.

    Krummhorn, I think you still misunderstand me. Or perhaps me you. When you sing a hymn, do you just start right on the first verse, no preparation? Just smack your hands down and hope people follow?

    Simon
    http://www.jansfort.com - A work in progress.
    http://blog.jansfort.com - my blog. Quite new.
    Both in danish

  8. #8
    Administrator Krummhorn's Avatar
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    Simon,

    For the hymn, I always play an intro that consists of at least the opening and last phrase. If the tune is new to the congregation, then I will play it all the way through using a solo stop for the melody line.


    Fun thread ... I'm having to learn Danish along the way to keep up with the discussion ... I'm enjoying trying to figure it all out.
    When I do get stumped, I found this nifty Danish to English translator

    Lars
    Last edited by Krummhorn; Mar-02-2007 at 00:01.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krummhorn View Post
    Simon,

    For the hymn, I always play an intro that consists of at least the opening and last phrase. If the tune is new to the congregation, then I will play it all the way through using a solo stop for the melody line.


    Fun thread ... I'm having to learn Danish along the way to keep up with the discussion ... I'm enjoying trying to figure it all out.
    When I do get stumped, I found this nifty Danish to English translator

    Lars
    Very often, Hymn preludes will do exactly that, start off with the opening line so people hopefully recognize it, and then spin off using that melodic motive, or the harmonisation, or whatever. It's common to let the prelude reflect the character of the hymn, a hymn from the romantic period will be presented in an other way than, say, a reformation hymn.

    But all in all, we have free hands to do pretty much what we want, and it's much fun indeed to find out new ways of introducing hymns at the service.

  10. #10
    Ensign, Principal Simon Jansfort's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krummhorn View Post
    Simon,

    For the hymn, I always play an intro that consists of at least the opening and last phrase. If the tune is new to the congregation, then I will play it all the way through using a solo stop for the melody line.

    Lars
    That's exactly what I mean. These small preludes to the hymns are the ones I were originally talking about. So, is it something you write down and make a sport out of composing?

    Simon
    http://www.jansfort.com - A work in progress.
    http://blog.jansfort.com - my blog. Quite new.
    Both in danish

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    Administrator Krummhorn's Avatar
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    Simon,

    Usually, they are improvised just before the service ... if I liked what happened, I'll notate them later that day. Spontaneity has, in the past, always worked best for my situation - but you have given me inspiration to rethink this ... us ol' dogs are always open to new thoughts and ideas. Thanks
    Kh ~~.
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    fessional musicians practice until they can't get it wrong ...


  12. #12
    Ensign, Principal Simon Jansfort's Avatar
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    Well, the "ol' dogs" in Denmark almost always has to have everything written down, because when I tell them that I usually improvise their yaws drop. But it's inspiring that I'm not the only one who does this.

    but back to the other issue. Do you have some similar hymns as we do in Europe? I'm not quite sure, and I don't know how to find out. The titles are of course different. I could of course make a fast sheet of music writing down the themes of 5-10 danish hymns, but would that do any good?

    Please share your thoughts on this
    http://www.jansfort.com - A work in progress.
    http://blog.jansfort.com - my blog. Quite new.
    Both in danish

  13. #13
    Administrator Krummhorn's Avatar
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    I am certain we have many similar hymns ... hymn tunes/texts by Martin Luther for example. Another is Kirken den er et gammelt hus (Built on a rock) whose text is by Grundtvig, tune by Ludvig Linderman. My church is ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) - evangelical in the sense of our given task towards outreach, not the evangelistic 'happy/clappy' type of worship service, as one MIMF'er put it.

    You are certainly welcome to peruse the ELW Hymnal that we currently use in worship as this might be easier than listing or posting tunes here.

    Lars

    Disclaimer: The hymnal site is available to anyone in the world with internet access.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krummhorn View Post
    I am certain we have many similar hymns ... hymn tunes/texts by Martin Luther for example. Another is Kirken den er et gammelt hus (Built on a rock) whose text is by Grundtvig, tune by Ludvig Linderman. My church is ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) - evangelical in the sense of our given task towards outreach, not the evangelistic 'happy/clappy' type of worship service, as one MIMF'er put it.
    Interesting that you have adapted Kirken den er et gammelt hus, a strong melody, too. Do you sing other Grundtvig hymns?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Jansfort View Post
    Well, the "ol' dogs" in Denmark almost always has to have everything written down, because when I tell them that I usually improvise their yaws drop. But it's inspiring that I'm not the only one who does this.
    On the other hand, improvisation is still highly regarded and a considerable part of the organist education at the conservatories, I think... Where I sing, the organist will be prepared for some of the hymns with pre-composed preludes, and improvise for others. My mother has improvised preludes the last 25 years, she don't want to bother with all these pieces of paper all over the place...

    Oh, and by the way, that is Vonsild kirkes organ in the pictures you've uploaded, isn't it?

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