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Thread: Can anyone identify these pieces?

  1. #1
    Lieutenant, Associate Concertmaster
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    Can anyone identify these pieces?

    Hi,

    I'm trying to identify two pieces that were played on pipe organ before
    the start of my parent's wedding almost 30
    years ago. Unfortunately, the organist is now deceased and I have no
    way of finding out what these pieces are. In the interest of good computer hygiene, I've uploaded them to
    ************ (in case you're unfamiliar with it) so that you won't need to download any files onto your computer. Just click on the link and it
    will take you to a page, and click the green play button in the little
    box on the upper left of the page, and the track will start to buffer and
    stream.

    Track 1:

    Track 2:

    [edit: the url's were updated - please see the 10th post in this thread for the new links]

    I would very greatly appreciate if someone could help me with this question
    that has had me wondering for over 10 years now!
    Last edited by Krummhorn; Aug-04-2007 at 09:35.

  2. #2
    Administrator Krummhorn's Avatar
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    Hi Argoth,

    Welcome to Magle Int'l Music Forums. I must admit, I've never heard these two pieces before, but perhaps someone else has and can be of more help.

    Hope you will become a regular participant in the many discussions here.
    Kh ~~.
    Administrator


    Amateur musicians practice until they get it right ...
    Pro
    fessional musicians practice until they can't get it wrong ...


  3. #3
    Lieutenant, Associate Concertmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krummhorn View Post
    Hi Argoth,

    Welcome to Magle Int'l Music Forums. I must admit, I've never heard these two pieces before, but perhaps someone else has and can be of more help.

    Hope you will become a regular participant in the many discussions here.
    Thanks very much for taking the time to have a listen. This question stumped a couple of experts on another site, who suggested composers ranging from Buxtehude to the German Roccoco period. I am not that well versed with organ repertoire, so hope I can find some help here as well! Thanks

  4. #4
    Seaman, Mezzoforte
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    Cool Vowles Tracker

    Hello I have never heard the pieces before, But the first one sounds Italian and the second one English I would think 18th century in both cases.

  5. #5
    Commodore con Forza Soubasse's Avatar
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    I concur with the above posts but the first piece is naggingly familiar. I've been going through some of my older compilation volumes but nothing yet. Isn't it annoying when this happens?? Driving yourself mad thinking "I'm sure I should know this ..."

    Vowles Tracker - I have a funny feeling I should know who you are given your location and position ...
    Music is made to transform the states of the soul, for an hour or an instant (J. Alain)

  6. #6
    Lieutenant, Associate Concertmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soubasse View Post
    I concur with the above posts but the first piece is naggingly familiar. I've been going through some of my older compilation volumes but nothing yet. Isn't it annoying when this happens?? Driving yourself mad thinking "I'm sure I should know this ..."

    Vowles Tracker - I have a funny feeling I should know who you are given your location and position ...
    Thanks for taking the time to reply. I got a reply from David Heller, Organ professor at my old University in the States, who said the first reminds him of some Handel Organ Concerti that were transcribed to solo organ, but he doesn't recognise the piece itself, and that the second sounds English but are possibly transcribed for organ if so. I got a lead from someone who knew the organist playing at the service who vaguely remembered him having said something about one or both the pieces having being played for the wedding of Queen Elizabeth (1947). I went through the tracklist in the audio CD recording of the wedding that is available at Amazon, and have come to the conclusion that the second piece is possibly an Organ transcription of a Wedding Fanfare for trumpets, by composer Arnold Bax. Does it sound like a trumpet to organ transcription? Being unable to find any streaming audio of this recording, I'll have to wait a few months 'til I'm back in the USA to purchase this recording.

    Until then, I think I'll be driven crazy trying to guess At any rate, thank you all for the help and do let me know if you find out.
    Last edited by Argoth; May-29-2007 at 10:44.

  7. #7
    Seaman, Mezzoforte
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    Cool Vowles Tracker

    I did have another thought this afternoon Charles Avison (1710-177O) Organist, composer,essayist. A composer of over 60 concerti grossi for strings. or a transcription of Stanley, Greene, Alcock, Stubley, Long, Croft. But I suspect it may be by Annonymous,

  8. #8
    Seaman, Mezzoforte
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    Vowles Tracker

    Quote Originally Posted by Soubasse View Post
    I concur with the above posts but the first piece is naggingly familiar. I've been going through some of my older compilation volumes but nothing yet. Isn't it annoying when this happens?? Driving yourself mad thinking "I'm sure I should know this ..."

    Vowles Tracker - I have a funny feeling I should know who you are given your location and position ...

    That is indeed possible, I used to be very active with OHTA in SA, but not being a so called 'academic' and also having a wonderful sense of humour, I thought who wants to belong to a club of boring old farts. I cannot help it if God gave me a happy heart. Variation of F.J. Haydn

  9. #9
    Seaman, Mezzoforte
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    Vowles Tracker

    Quote Originally Posted by Krummhorn View Post
    Hi Argoth,

    Welcome to Magle Int'l Music Forums. I must admit, I've never heard these two pieces before, but perhaps someone else has and can be of more help.

    Hope you will become a regular participant in the many discussions here.

    I am now learning how to find my way around this site, like being inside the Sydney Town Hall 64' pipe. Speaking of that fantastic organ, did you know when Australia converted to metric measurements they printed the organ specification from feet and inches into millimetres so the 64' would have been 195072mm I think my maths is correct?

  10. #10
    Lieutenant, Associate Concertmaster
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    Looks like my subscription had expired and the files had got deleted! Sorry to bump this thread again, but maybe I'll have better luck this time round. Here are the files again:

    http://www.************/file/21173615...9b/Track1.html

    and

    http://www.************/file/21173738...93/track2.html

    Hope someone can help! Thanks

  11. #11
    Captain of Water Music Art Rock's Avatar
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    No luck - dno't recognise either. I would be very much surprised if the second one is Bax - does not sound at all like his style.

  12. #12
    Administrator Krummhorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vowles Tracker View Post
    I am now learning how to find my way around this site, like being inside the Sydney Town Hall 64' pipe. Speaking of that fantastic organ, did you know when Australia converted to metric measurements they printed the organ specification from feet and inches into millimetres so the 64' would have been 195072mm I think my maths is correct?
    Hmmm, I got 19507.2mm ... still a huge number ... Imagine the confusion if they ever put the stop length in "mm" on the drawknobs or stoptabs.
    Kh ~~.
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    Amateur musicians practice until they get it right ...
    Pro
    fessional musicians practice until they can't get it wrong ...


  13. #13
    Lieutenant, Associate Concertmaster
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    Found it!

    With help from Dr. Gerre Hancock at the University of Texas, and Dr. June Nixon at the University of Melbourne, the pieces have been finally identified as the entire overture to Handel's "Athalia."!!!

    I listened to a sample at Amazon, http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-p...063573-4645743 and it certainly is the first piece, since that seems to be divided into 3 (parts?) I'm guessing that it's all there, now to buy the CD! As for that confusion about Arnold Bax, I'm guessing what the organist meant was that he played these pieces when Queen Elizabeth visited my country, and not that it was played at her wedding, so Arnold Bax has nothing to do with this lol. My thanks to all who helped!

  14. #14
    Recruit, Pianissimo
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    Is it Handel?

    How interesting! I suggest you listen to the last mocvement of John Stanley's Organ Concerto No.2 in D (Op.10). That is ALSO the first piece you needed to identify!

  15. #15
    Lieutenant, Associate Concertmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcroc View Post
    How interesting! I suggest you listen to the last mocvement of John Stanley's Organ Concerto No.2 in D (Op.10). That is ALSO the first piece you needed to identify!
    Wow really? I will surely have a listen to it. I found an organ transcript of Handel's Athalia Overture at Sibelius http://www.sibeliusmusic.com/cgi-bin...?scoreid=56363

    and yes the whole thing is indeed this (though this isn't a great transcription to me, it sounds like there are some wrong notes). It seems Handel has also used the first piece in some of his other concertos. Anyway I will have a listen to the piece you suggested as well.

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