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    Frederik Magle
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    Krummhorn
    Co-Administrator

Tuning in the digital age ... vexing

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
Hi Johan,

I guess it depends upon the tuner and the manner in which he or she prefers to do things. I have had a fellow over the years that tuned each rank with an electronic device, and another who used a tuning fork for A-440, and tuned the Principal rank from that. After that rank was itself in tune, then he tuned the rest of the ranks, by ear, to the 4' pitch of the Principal rank.

I much prefer the results of the latter - the finished tuning is warmer when done "manually" (starting with a tuning fork) and not so sterile like when the electronic device was used. Oddly enough, the organ as a whole, stays in tune better when the pipes were tuned by ear, at least for my particular church instrument.
 

Contratrombone64

Admiral of Fugues
That'll teach me for posting on such an esoteric subject!!

Thanks to one and all for your enlightened comments, far more edifying than the silly forum games here (which I enjoy), that's for sure!
 

jvhldb

New member
Thanks for the reply Krummhorn, tuning to a "base" rank makes sense to me, but our organ was tuned without referance to any other rank and there was definetly NO tuning fork or electronic device used during the tuning.
 

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
Johan,

OMG ... that's the strangest method of tuning I have ever heard of yet. No wonder the ranks are almost not playable together. Yah, I would seek out another technician for tunings, too. A 40 minute tuning job ... most unusual.

My church organ is but 9 ranks, and it takes my tech about 3 hours for a complete tuning, 60 minutes if doing a touch up before a concert.

What is the situation for pipe organ technicians in your region? Do you have other people readily available who do this kind of work?
 

jvhldb

New member
It seemed strange to me as well that's why I asked for more info.

The only other technitian we now of is in Johannesburg, we've been trying to get him in, but the church committee is a bit hesitant (aren't they always when a decision is music related?) firstly there is the travel expense, approx 1200km return trip, overnight accomodation and then his fee. Currently he tunes all the major organs from Durban to Johannesburg so isn't always available on short notice, they are affraid that the current tuner will refuse to help us in an emergency if the one from Johannesburg isn't available.

Our only other option is to get a butter knife, we already have a metronome with a built in tone generator and tuning meter, and two perfectly tuned pianos to work from.;)
 

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
Johan,

I'm wondering if their aren't other church organs in your close proximity that your church could join forces in securing the expertise of the tuner from Johannesburg? I mean, if several churches could schedule the tuning to be done a nearly the same time, the cost of travel could be shared, which might make it more attractive to the church committee.

Surely the butter knife would suffice for the pipes who need to be touched up here and there - I've done that myself between scheduled tunings.

Some could say one needs to be "experienced" to take over the tuning, but one can only gain experience by doing. It seems in your particular case, nothing ventured, nothing gained perhaps.

I did just that in a former church on a 5 rank Wicks after the organ tech died and the organ was too small for the other techs to want to take on the required monthly tunings (it was on 15" wind pressure). After a few years, I swapped a Tibia rank for a Cornopean - for the first time, the organ could finally be heard in the back of the nave!

I feel for you having to run all this through your church committee ... In my church, where I am the organist, (my official title is "Dean of the Organ"), I have a line item in the annual budget for organ care ... as long as I don't exceed that amount, I can contract with the technician of my choosing, and schedule the tunings. Of course, the tech who does the work lives in the same town, but my former tech had to travel from Missourri, but then had 6 accounts to tune here twice a year, so the cost was shared amongst all the churches he serviced.
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Aloha GrandMaster Krummhorn,

Wow! Swapping a tibia for a cornopean - now that *new* reed probably sets up a real amount of racket on 15" W.P. :lol::lol::lol:

Cheerio,

CD :):):)
 

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
Aloha CD,

It did ... I practically had to close the sardine can style voicing flaps ... the only bummer about the Cornopean was that is was a 4' rank, so it was used as a solo stop and for capping off the full ensemble as there were no mixtures.

The Cornopean came out of a Robert Morton unit organ that a friend had installed in his home. He had always wanted a Wicks Tibia because they "weeped" more than the Wurlitzer Tibias. I had absolutely no use for the Tibia in a high liturgical church setting, so it was seldom used.

We worked out a trade where I would do all the removal and installation work at the church end of things and no money changed hands.

The organ was originally 13 ranks - Wicks Theater Organ, horseshoe console, stop tab lights, double touch (which became so troublesome that it was removed), the works. The church got 5 ranks and the console along with the Xylophone, which was never hooked up. The blower was in a detached room accessible only from the outside. Once, one of the internal blades broke off while the blower was at full speed - it was a quiet time in church during the sermon ... What a racket that was!! And at that high revolution speed, it took awhile for the blower to stop ... I picked up all my music and headed for the piano to finish the service.

In early 1972, we replaced the aging beast with an Allen Digital (MOS type) and some guy bought the old Wicks for $500 ... Where it went remains a mystery.
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Aloha GrandMaster Krummhorn,

Wow! Now thats a very rare occurence that a blade inside the blower breaks off. Everything *downwind* from the point of separation gets trashed. Thankfully, blowers don't spin at 9000 rpm - had it happened at such speed the blades would act like shrapnel - the blower housing would have exploded!

I've seen when a jet engine goes into compressor explosion mode - all those hundreds of compressor blades making a quick exit from the housing - shrapnel city, dude...Get outta there, ASAP!!! And what an ungodly noise it makes.......

Cheerio,

CD :):):)
 

jvhldb

New member
Johan,

I'm wondering if their aren't other church organs in your close proximity that your church could join forces in securing the expertise of the tuner from Johannesburg? I mean, if several churches could schedule the tuning to be done a nearly the same time, the cost of travel could be shared, which might make it more attractive to the church committee.

We suggested that, but there are only two pipe organs in town so sharing travel and other expenses will only make a small dent. The biggest problem is that the "good" tech is in such demand that tuning have to be scheduled months in advance. If we have an emergency we don't know how long it will take before he can attend to us, the other guy is at least in the same provence and can usually attend to an emergency within two weeks. The council is scared that he won't help us if we start using the guy from Johannesburg.

This Sunday we have two christmas song festivals with the full Free State Symphonic Orgastra in the church (this last tuning was done to get the organ in tune to be used with the orgastra), during rehearsal last night the four cundoctors made such an issue about the out of tune organ that I think with the next meeting we might be able to convince the powers that be to get a proper tuner in.
 

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
. . . The council is scared that he won't help us if we start using the guy from Johannesburg.

I suppose the council would have to evaluate how many times in the past years you've needed an extra service call for other than routine tunings. But you know ... if you are able to contract the better tech, that might send a much needed wake up call to the local guy to improve his demeanor.

jvhldb said:
This Sunday we have two christmas song festivals with the full Free State Symphonic Orgastra in the church (this last tuning was done to get the organ in tune to be used with the orgastra), during rehearsal last night the four cundoctors made such an issue about the out of tune organ that I think with the next meeting we might be able to convince the powers that be to get a proper tuner in.

We can only hope ... at least the council will realize that you are not the only one who notices this problem.

The best of everything to you in the weekend performance. You've mentioned this program before and as I recall, it is a major event in your region. Hope all goes well for you and the performance.
 

dll927

New member
Which begs the question, what were those "orchestras" (or conductors) tuned to????

No pipe organ can go forever without tuning and maintenance, but what about climate conditions? There are such things as churches that are so tightwad that they won't wake up and realize that the temperature has to be reasonably constant. Then they wonder why the organ doesn't stay in tune!!
 

jvhldb

New member
Which begs the question, what were those "orchestras" (or conductors) tuned to????

No pipe organ can go forever without tuning and maintenance, but what about climate conditions? There are such things as churches that are so tightwad that they won't wake up and realize that the temperature has to be reasonably constant. Then they wonder why the organ doesn't stay in tune!!

All the pianos were tuned to concert pitch, the tuner came in the Monday before the concert (that is when he did the his worst to the organ). We requested him to tune the organ to concert pitch and was informed that it is impossible to get concert pitch on any of our pipes, although some ranks were tuned to concert pitch BEFORE he started tuning.

In the end they used a keyboard instead of the organ.:nut::eek::p
 

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
. . . No pipe organ can go forever without tuning and maintenance, but what about climate conditions? There are such things as churches that are so tightwad that they won't wake up and realize that the temperature has to be reasonably constant. Then they wonder why the organ doesn't stay in tune!!

Fortunately, my church has heeded my instructions on temperature ... no greater than a 10 degree fluctuation between summer and winter indoor temperatures, which makes a fairly constant 74° to 76° temperature at the pipes (since they are in a side gallery and on a western wall).

Guess I'm one of the lucky ones in that respect.

All the pianos were tuned to concert pitch, the tuner came in the Monday before the concert (that is when he did the his worst to the organ). We requested him to tune the organ to concert pitch and was informed that it is impossible to get concert pitch on any of our pipes, although some ranks were tuned to concert pitch BEFORE he started tuning.

In the end they used a keyboard instead of the organ.:nut::eek::p

Johan,

Geez ... that's a real bummer to have not been able to use the pipe organ. I have never heard a technician make that kind of statement about not being able to tune to concert pitch ... he needs a reality check, and then a swift boot, so your church can hire the better tuner.

I bet you were burning inside when the keyboard was brought in as a replacement for the organ.

How did the concert go, otherwise?
 

jvhldb

New member
I bet you were burning inside when the keyboard was brought in as a replacement for the organ.

How did the concert go, otherwise?

I'm just glad they didn't ask me to play the keyboard, I'll rather pedal the old harmonium than touch the keyboard.

The concerts were a big success. There were 2 "shows" with seating for 600 people each, both shows were booked out 3 weeks before the time, if there were 3 shows I guess all three would have been booked out, but the best thing is, I haven't heard of one complaint. Even the people without bookings that showed up and sat in the isles and on window sills were full of praise afterwards. The symphonic orchestra also hinted that if they were ever invited again they will definately accept.
 
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