Drugs

[toejamfootball]

First off I would like to know if this is a legal topic here? If it is, what are your opinions on Drugs (Any Drugs not just illegal drugs) How do you feel about all of the different Pills the Pharmacy companies are pumping out? How do you feel about the so called "War on Drugs" ??

[Corno Dolce]

Hi toejamfootball,

If it's not prescribed or over-the-counter: DON'T DO IT!!!

Btw, if my memory serves me, toejam in local pidgin hawaiian means *stinky feet*. Maybe you might consider adopting a new mo****r on MIMF - just a suggestion ;-D

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

[Krummhorn]

Hi toejamfootball,

Yes - the topic is quite okay and should become an interesting thread. For me personally, without prescribed drugs I would be sad shape. The inordinate amount of money people have to pay out to greedy pharmaceutical companies is absurd and needs to be changed. Countless Americans are fleeing across the Canadian and Mexican borders for relief in prices ... oddly, most of the time it is the same medicine, made by the same company, sealed in the same containers that are available int he states, but at a lower affordable price.

I am diabetic - so I require two injectables daily ... one is called Byetta and the other is Insulin. Without both ... well, I just don't want to go there.

I do use OTC Niacin along with Aspirin for controlling cholesterol levels. My body chemistry is allergic to meds containing statins - which wasn't discovered until 6 months into taking those.

Seems the older we get, the more pills we take - whether or not they are all needed (except for specific diseases like diabetes) is another matter. For me, I can't live without them ... fortunately I have excellent health insurance, so my out of pocket costs are minimal. However, that doesn't excuse the pharmaceutical manufacturers from charging mega bucks when it isn't necessary or prudent.

[Sybarite]

I think that Krummhorn has pretty much summed up the importance of prescription drugs – I would only develop what has been said by adding that it is tragic that money comes before health in this world and that developing world nations opften cannot afford the drugs that would help their people, because pharmaceutical corporations must keep their shareholders happy with ever-increasing profits. This to the extent that companies threaten countries that create 'copies' of such drugs. The same can also be said of countries that do not have a proper healthcare system, where people who are sick cannot afford to get care – or drugs, if required – because they cannot afford the kind of insurance required. Civilisation, eh?

In terms of illegal drugs, I've tried a couple of things over the years and found them perfectly pleasant and not at all addictive. So I'd be a hypocrite to throw a wobbly at the thought.

In my opinion, it would be far better if the government (and I'm talking specifically of the UK, where I live) legalised all recreational drugs – or at least decriminalised them to the extent that, like Amsterdam, you could get a joint or a space cookie openly and without fear of being arrested, in certain places where it is open and known about (it isn't actually legal in Amsterdam, but the Dutch are a pragmatic people). If you did this, you'd remove a huge amount of profit from organised crime, and also cut the link between the majority of recreational drug users and organised crime. It could possibly also help to break the links between parts of the sex industry and drugs.

Amsterdam also has an interesting approach to heroin use; if a user is registered with their local doctor, they get a fix every day. Free. (Obviously they get methadone or similar if they want to come off the drug) That might sound expensive, but the costs are saved in reduced crime to fund a habit, and also in a reduction of overdoses from bad or spiked H. Again, all this helps to break the link with organised crime.

Mind you, we could have cut the amount of opium on the world if we wanted to since the invasion of Afghanistan, but the allies (and the US in particular) has been largely clueless, has not really bothered to invest in or work hard at providing the kind of alternative crops and work for people in the country, and are far more interested in spending millions of dollars on a spanking new embassy in Kabul.

You'd think that they didn't really want to win the 'war on drugs'.

And before we forget, caffeine is a drug, as are alcohol and tobacco.

[Oneiros]

In my opinion, it would be far better if the government (and I'm talking specifically of the UK, where I live) legalised all recreational drugs – or at least decriminalised them to the extent that, like Amsterdam, you could get a joint or a space cookie openly and without fear of being arrested, in certain places where it is open and known about (it isn't actually legal in Amsterdam, but the Dutch are a pragmatic people). If you did this, you'd remove a huge amount of profit from organised crime, and also cut the link between the majority of recreational drug users and organised crime. It could possibly also help to break the links between parts of the sex industry and drugs.

I fully agree with you here. Without the underhand criminal element, we could all be smoking joints in peace. Maybe don't legalise all drugs, but there isn't much harm in a bit of grass every now and then.

Bring back the hippie days!

[White Knight]

I think that Krummhorn has pretty much summed up the importance of prescription drugs – I would only develop what has been said by adding that it is tragic that money comes before health in this world and that developing world nations opften cannot afford the drugs that would help their people, because pharmaceutical corporations must keep their shareholders happy with ever-increasing profits. This to the extent that companies threaten countries that create 'copies' of such drugs. The same can also be said of countries that do not have a proper healthcare system, where people who are sick cannot afford to get care – or drugs, if required – because they cannot afford the kind of insurance required. Civilisation, eh?

In terms of illegal drugs, I've tried a couple of things over the years and found them perfectly pleasant and not at all addictive. So I'd be a hypocrite to throw a wobbly at the thought.

In my opinion, it would be far better if the government (and I'm talking specifically of the UK, where I live) legalised all recreational drugs – or at least decriminalised them to the extent that, like Amsterdam, you could get a joint or a space cookie openly and without fear of being arrested, in certain places where it is open and known about (it isn't actually legal in Amsterdam, but the Dutch are a pragmatic people). If you did this, you'd remove a huge amount of profit from organised crime, and also cut the link between the majority of recreational drug users and organised crime. It could possibly also help to break the links between parts of the sex industry and drugs.

Amsterdam also has an interesting approach to heroin use; if a user is registered with their local doctor, they get a fix every day. Free. (Obviously they get methadone or similar if they want to come off the drug) That might sound expensive, but the costs are saved in reduced crime to fund a habit, and also in a reduction of overdoses from bad or spiked H. Again, all this helps to break the link with organised crime.

Mind you, we could have cut the amount of opium on the world if we wanted to since the invasion of Afghanistan, but the allies (and the US in particular) has been largely clueless, has not really bothered to invest in or work hard at providing the kind of alternative crops and work for people in the country, and are far more interested in spending millions of dollars on a spanking new embassy in Kabul.

You'd think that they didn't really want to win the 'war on drugs'.

And before we forget, caffeine is a drug, as are alcohol and tobacco.

I wish to totally endorse what Sybarite has advocated. The so called "war on drugs" is completely unwinnable, as long as the criminal cartels and syndicates are able to reap huge profits from what after all is another human weakness and vice. Far better--as Sybarite points out--to let the government regulate and dispense these things and put the thugs out of business. After all, we already do this with alcohol and cigarettes, which I'm sure kill many more Americans and people worldwide than all the "illegal" drugs combined. If they were "legal", another steady stream of tax revenue would also be realized, instead of billions going to the underworld. A basic reason why this inaptly named "war on drugs" can never be won is that the problem--in capitalist terms, of course--is not supply but an unquenchable demand on the part of millions of Americans--and others--for these products. Have we forgotten the lessons of Prohibition in this country so soon? Apparently we have.

[thirdcreed]

I like portugal's drug solution. Treating drugs as a medical problem, not as a crime. Often people on some level want to get rid of there addictions, we could actually help with that, instead of forcing people into criminal situations, where they are more likely to encounter worse and worse addictions. I'm afraid that there isn't alot of honest discussion about it, from either side. I think the "War on (Ideology x)" doesn't ever work, ideas cannot be successfully warred against.

Apparently portugal has had enormous success with its treatment program. I'd be all for honest, data-driven, and intelligent discussion in America to reform our current drug war system into a more portugalesque one.

As concerning the drug companies...I would pay one billion dollars to stay alive, and they're taking advantage of that fact. The demand on survival is infinite, and good old lassez-faire capatalism is nothing but supply over demand. I think socialism is often the wrong way to go, but one can see how a product with infinite demand is not ideal for capitalist markets.

My high-school history teacher has just left a long remission and now is paying out ten thousand dollars a month to stay alive one month at a time. How could this be anything but evil? They have to somehow make a profit, but following a PPF and nothing else in this situation is evil.

I think eventually a socio-capatlist chimera will emerge and lick this problem, but I wonder how many people will die before then for no other reason than Pfizers' CEO wants a luxury yacht in the mediteranean.

[White Knight]

Hi thirdcreed. I am in whole hearted agreement with all the points and observations you make in your latest post. Even though capitalism does have its good points, some of the ills and unfairnesses crop up when too much is left to the "market", and the market alone. People and their needs tend to be forgotten and over ridden when the major concern is the "bottom line" to the exclusion of any other human/humane considerations.

[teddy]

When I was young - a long time ago - myself and a small group of friends would occasionally smoke something. This was mainly to further enhance the music we listened to. I do not believe that what we used was anything like the products available now, such as skunk, which I believe is far more powerful. We were all good kids from good families and it did not affect our ability to hold down jobs and earn a living. You cannot compare this to some of the hard drugs which reduce the ability to function normally, and which are far more habit forming. Even if these hard drugs were available legally and at a lower price there would still be a section of society who were unable to work because of their habit, and who would be financially dependent on the workers and the retired people. Could we afford to keep them? I believe it would not reduce crime as there would still be an element who would be dependent on the proceeds of crime to feed their habit, even if it did reduce the organised criminals who supply the drugs. You would probably be swapping one set of criminals for another. Plus the free availability of the drugs might encourage more people to use them thereby exasperating the problem. Harder sentences for all hard drug users ( not necessarily cannabis which has some medical benefits) and especially for the distributors is probably the only real deterrent. I am a great believer in allowing mature adults to do whatever they want, but not at a cost to others. One of the rules in my house is - you can do whatever you like, provided it does not hurt anyone one else. I can only close this with Steppenwolf. GOD DAMN THE PUSHER

teddy

[White Knight]

Teddy, I fully understand your feelings on this and "where you are coming from". My only point is that we can be as moral as we want on this subject, but we will never suceed in winning this "war", as long as the demand--at least in America--is seemingly never-ending. Again, all we are doing is enabling a relatively small group of "venture capitalists"--who are in fact criminals--to wax fat at the expense of other peoples' misery and suffering. We in this country also incarcerate a lot of users, when the cell space could be much better utilized for violent felons. Regarding your point about the supposed freer availability of "legalised drugs"--I don't know about you or others--but they could not pay me enough to put that poison into my body. And I'm sure that those who aren't currently drug addicts would not suddenly devolve into that condition were the government to regulate this and treat it as a medical--rather than--a criminal matter. I agree with Steppenwolf; I have no sympathy for the pushers and dealers fronted by the cartels who are making huge profits from this poisoned death. Let the government at least exercise a little control over this vice, bring it under stricter regulation--and as with tobacco and alcohol,which kill far more people than any "illegal" drug--collect revenues from it. I liken this scourge to prostitution, which in some countries and states is monitored and taxed by the government, with far less disease and deaths of both customers and law enforcement personnel than we have with this so called "war on drugs". I'll close by again stating that we--especially in this country--should not forget the lessons of our last "drug war"; to wit, Prohibition in the 1920's.

[teddy]

I agree about prostiution.I believe they have reached a good compromise in ermany were the girls work from state controlled premises and are protected to some extent and have acess to medical units. The drug problem is growing over here as well but the police are fighting back with multiple arrests and conviscation of assets. Is it the answer. I dont know.

teddy

[Chi_townPhilly]

Btw, if my memory serves me, toejam in local pidgin hawaiian means *stinky feet*. Maybe you might consider adopting a new mo****r on MIMF - just a suggestion ;-D

I know I'm (very) late to this party... but actually, 'Toejam Football'
is a Rock & Roll lyrics reference [from the Beatles' Come Together.]

He wear no shoeshine he got Toejam Football
He got Monkey Finger he shoot Coca-Cola
He say "I know you, you know me"
One thing I can tell ya is ya got to be free
Come together, right now... over me. 2nd stanza

(And speaking of drugs, John must have been doing
some pretty good ones when writing THOSE lyrics!)

[teddy]

Had a late thought on this matter. Legalise all drugs but make people responsible for their own actions. If you are unable to work through your addiction, tough, you will recieve no handouts as you got yourself into that situation. Would it work? And if the relavent goverment legalised drugs, how long before, in this day and age, someone sued them fore allowing them to become addicted? Please, someone come up with a solution.

teddy

[southernparks]

hi, i found this article:
http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/...juana-illegal/

[teddy]

Interesting and informative article SP. The making of laws have always been influenced to some degree by self interest. One point I have made before (and sticking solely to weed) is that there is a lot of difference between the joints that were smoked when I was young and the chemically enhanced skunk that is around today. The occasional recreational joint, one one taken for pain relief maybe is very different from half a dozen skunk joints smoked daily. A couple of drinks after work or two bottles of whiskey a day. I am not totally against drug use, only drug abuse. But I have the same feelings about alcohol, solvents and glue. It is just about impossible to legislate against human nature but more education could change things. Possibly.

teddy