arvo part

[pliorius]

first of all i'll tell you how i met his music. i've been wandering in oslo, jobless, happy, alone and turned out to find myself in youth center, and there played music. i couldn't leave untill it stopped, so i sat down on the stool and listned.i didn't dear to ask what was playing...the next or some other day i went to music shop saw an light blue cover album, read fur alina and arvo part on the cover. i put it on and that was it - spiegel im spiegel. so, it's the composition that changed my life. i think it's the most truly beautiful music i ever heard.though i very seldomly, always never,like to talk of ''the most'' stuff. from that encounter, i understood that true musical experience must be like that, out of nowhere, having no idea what to expect. this may happen very rare in a man's life time. it may never happen. so my question - do you think music can be the source of truth? i, myself, listen very little to music. last time i heard spiegel im spiegel was maybe half of a year back. i think it's too strong to listen it too often. i don't want to make it my mistress.

[Oneiros]

It's very humbling to hear your story. I agree that there is something very special about Pärt's music. It seems to descend from above to meet our ears for a few moments before returning home. Yes, I believe that good music can reveal the highest truths if one is open to them.

But I still think it's a shame not to listen more often. Perhaps the immediate sense-perception of beauty fades... But what grows is the deeper awareness that such beauty can be found in many places, not only in music.

Welcome to the forum.

[pliorius]

as i said-it is too powerful music to listen to it too often.for me. every time i take a chance to do it, i am left with question-should i do something to stay faithful and true to this music?and-is there anything one can do?and, if not, then i think that i miss the music.that i, somehow, betray it.there are some of my friends who think that's spiegel im spiegel is just beautiful music, a relaxation procedure...i conclude that they do not understand it.to me arvo part's music is quite paradoxical.he's deeply religious composer. yet, his "fratres" to me is a deeply erotic music. passionate. well, of course, eros means getting to know, to understand, so maybe i'm not too perverse about thinking it erotic.

[Corno Dolce]

In the Judeo/Christian mind we find three classes of love:

Agape = love for your fellow man; a respect for them and willingness to help
-------
them when they need it e.g. helping an elderly woman or man cross a street.


Filios = love for your brother/sister whom you are in communion/fellowship
------
with.

Eros = love expressed in carnal relationship.


Fratres is an expression of Filios. This per a lecture given by Arvo Pärt to a group of musicians rehearsing for a recording of Pärt's music.

[Oneiros]

I wonder if the truth expressed in Pärt's music is too deep for life. It's essential to be reminded of it, but how can day to day living approach it? Perhaps the great ones knew how to integrate these... To live truthfully. I don't know the answer to this, but as always, the search continues.

[Corno Dolce]

Blessed Oneiros,

The Deepest Truth is sometimes too deep for life. It severely challenges our whole person, our preconceptions, our systematised knowledge base, and our *raison d'etre*. Does that mean we give up and just lay down in a corner to die as a miserable wreck? Heck no!!!!!!!

Get up, Get dressed, and Let's Go!!!

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

[pliorius]

i know it should be the filios case, but we can't go from should to is. more over i think that no true love can live on without eros. the absence of eros in love turns it to the form of longing.that's why part's fratres is in a way longing,and-at the same time-longing for eros.between brothers and sisters. you cannot form a true community without body, yet the idea of community forbids what body naturaly is - instrument of/for possesion.
as for "sitting in the corner " thing, i do not believe that's so easy. being faithful to one's experienced/met truths is more than just being good. it requires responsibility and/for taking chances, which is quite hard.harder.as beckett knew - things can only be ill-said.that's a gap between the thing (event of your experience) and generating its consequences.

[Corno Dolce]

Hello Pliorius,

Eros in the context of True Love is in the grand scheme of things. But there is also deep fellowship in which there is no eros and that deep fellowship comes about when a person or group self-sacrifies his/her/their physical intimacy needs through sublimation.

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

[pliorius]

yes, what you say sounds like a classical definition of friendship/fellowship.i think it (this kind of a fellowship) is very welcome and desirable.yet, i see some little problems in it. and eros is not a need, not in a sense sex is. no one needs to be passionate, it goes for no purpose. passion is the contrarary to pleasure. so what i see in fratres is this passion, which is erotic in the sense that one, to undergo true relationship with anyone else, has to go naked. become wounded. open up for passion. then the problem arises-and, presicely, not if one can sacrifice his passion, but if one cal live his passion, without making a ritual and need out of it. that is a differentiation between eros and sex. i think any true friendship is erotic. but not sexual. that's why sometimes it's so hard to go one with women

[Corno Dolce]

Hello Pliorius,

Generally speaking, there is homophilic behavior and homoerotic behavior - likewise there is lesbophilic behavior and lesboerotic behavior. The latter of each implies *eros* - the former of each implies a generalised attraction to the same sex.

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

Btw - Methinks we are straying too far away from the topic of Arvo Pärt and run the risk of getting *bogged down* in a fruitless discussion of different genders and their proclivities. I blame myself for letting it get this far. Lets get back on topic, ok?

Have you ever heard of Pärt's *Berliner Messe*? Quite a magnificent work, imho. Choir with organ and string ensemble makes for a glowing sound that evokes the vision-sense of dark honey-colored amber.

[pliorius]

well, you see, i'm not partial to the "aesthetics", i never thought it is of any interst.as we were going along the lines of talking and discussing the truth of part's couple of compositions, i was truely happy. i didn't want to approach it from conceptions of diffrent kind of loves. i found the thoughts of love-movement i part's music. that was my goal - to clear them out, to try to think them from within the music. sorry, if thats of no interest for you, or anyone else. i still believe that truth is more important than aesthetics. be it truths of science, arts, politics or love.and, what is of most interest to me, the interrelation between them.
i never got as close a to understand part's "religious" works, though i tried. but maybe it would be unfaithful for me to speak of them since i am not religious person and don't believe in god.
as we were going along marking the lines of love, i thought is there any music that thinks 'xenia' - love for strangers. and, yes, i think fratres does that as well, because of its nakedness,passion and eros - going beyond the realm of known. so, to summarize, i think arvo part is the composer of love, his music thinks love. that's where it fails/supercedes "aesthetics". in this case truths of particular music somehow says the truths destined for love.

(next topic we could discuss would be the relation between mathematics and music)

[pnoom]

I need to listen to him, since another huge Magma fan lists Part as his second favorite band/composer (yes, I know Part is a composer, but Magma is a band).

Recommendations for a starting place?

[Corno Dolce]

Hi pnoom,

May I humbly suggest the CD entitled *Te Deum*

http://www.boomkat.com/item.cfm?id=27283


Cheers,

Corno Dolce

[pnoom]

Thank you

[pliorius]

i suggest to start from "fratres" or "lamentate", and end it with "spiegel im spiegel"