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Thread: Karlheinz Stockhausen

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    Vice Admiral Virtuoso rojo's Avatar
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    Karlheinz Stockhausen

    Karlheinz Stockhausen (1928-2007)

    We recently lost this highly influential and pioneering composer. (Dec.5th) A sad loss for the music community.

    I enjoy his 'Kontakte', as well as some of his chamber music in particular.

    Which works of his do others enjoy?
    ''Music, I feel, should be emotional first and intellectual second.'' - Maurice Ravel
    ''The greatest education in the world is watching the masters at work.'' - Michael Jackson


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    Captain of Water Music some guy's Avatar
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    Prozession, for sure.

    Momente.

    Gruppen is good fun.

    The opening to Klavierst├╝ck nr. 9 is to die for.

    I like the famous Gesang... all right, but Hymnen is more fun, I think. Longer, too.

    I recently got the Helicopter Quartet, more on the strength of its being Arditti playing it than anything else, and was surprised at how um well pretty it is.

    Kurzwelle was where I stopped listening to Stockhausen. So there's a big gap in my listening experience which I should probably start filling.... (I haven't listened to Kurzwelle in quite a long time. It'll probably seem very nice and pretty to me now, no doubt!

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    Commodore con Forza Sybarite's Avatar
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    I admit to knowing very little about Stockhausen's work, but his death prompted me to download this from iTunes and I've ordered Kontakte from Amazon.

    What I've had the chance to listen to properly of the downloaded music, thus far I've enjoyed and look forward to hearing more.


    As a complete aside, some guy – is your avatar of the Stravinsky fountain at the Pompidou in Paris?

  4. #4
    Captain of Water Music some guy's Avatar
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    Sybarite, finally!! Someone finally recognized the Stravinsky fountain at the Pompidou.

    (After I'd moved back to the U.S.--long story--after a brief and very lovely stay in Paris, my youngest son was looking at pictures I'd taken of the Stravinsky fountain. His comment, "Why would you ever leave a place that has something like this!!" Ha ha. It's true. I had no good answer for that question. And last year, we all met up in Paris for the Spectrum XXI festival, and I took the boys to that fountain, by a circuitous route. We come around the corner; there it is; and my youngest yells: "Hey! That's it! That's that place in your pictures!!"

    I love my kids.)

    Anyway, back to the thread. I left Mikrophonie off my list. I heard that live in L.A. back in the 80's as I recall. Possibly part of the Olympics Arts Festival. Possibly just one of the new music concerts. Anyway, it's a real stunner, especially live, as you get to see all the cool equipment and watch the performer travel all over that huge tam tam with all sorts of neat toys.

  5. #5
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Hello some guy,

    Your avatar reminds me of something by Nikki de St. Phalle - And sure enough it was...

    For those who'd like to know more about Nikki, click on the links below:

    http://artplastock.web-xperience.com...t-phalle-4.jpg

    http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3Doff%26sa%3DN

    Cheers,

    Corno Dolce
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

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    Karl Stockhausen died too late.

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    Captain of Water Music some guy's Avatar
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    And maybe when Clarissa gets to that point in her own life, people will be as charitable to her as she has been to Karlheinz.

    Maybe.

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    Vice Admiral Virtuoso rojo's Avatar
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    I admire your reply, some guy.

    There are times, as a mod, when one is really tempted to delete a post, because one finds it too disrespectfully inane. This is one of those very few times. (Curse my belief in free speech.)
    ''Music, I feel, should be emotional first and intellectual second.'' - Maurice Ravel
    ''The greatest education in the world is watching the masters at work.'' - Michael Jackson


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    Captain of Water Music some guy's Avatar
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    Glad I hit just the right note with that.

    As it were!

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    Commodore con Forza Andrew Roussak's Avatar
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    You may find this video interesting:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4Nx-...eature=related

    This is a video on YouTube - Vanessa Benelli Mosell plays Stockhausen in BARGA, a piano piece ( a serial one, as I believe ). You may find it interesting how the comments are polarized there - from "genious" to "toilet music" ( I am sorry, this is a quotation ).

    @rojo - Rojo (and some guy also ) - I absolutely understand your anger concerning that short post ( see above ). To just say that music is "crap" or just "genious" is , in fact, the same as to say nothing, and is rather close to spamming therefore. Ok.

    But you see how different the opinions are - what do you think of the piece of music played by Vanessa Benelli? I can only say, the performance ( of the pianist ) is perfect, no question about that.

    What would you say?

    Cheers,
    Andrew




    Last edited by Andrew Roussak; Dec-16-2007 at 15:41.
    "Once you have tasted flight, you will ever walk with your eyes turned skywards; for there you have been, and there you long to return." - Leonardo Da Vinci


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    Commodore con Forza Sybarite's Avatar
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    It struck me that Clarissa possibly made the post concerned in reference to reported comments by Stockhausen over 9/11.

    However, even assuming that, her comment implies that anyone who says something with which she disagrees deserves to die.

    A very dodgy point of view. But one that, ironically (if I have read this right), al-Queda would probably agree with.

  12. #12
    Captain of Water Music some guy's Avatar
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    Near as I can tell, the opinions about the piano piece are different because the experiences of the posters are different. The ones who have listened to more more music have an easier time understanding it (and an easier time with being able to say something intelligible about the performance).

    That's only a guess, of course, but one based on, well, experience. People who have not listened to much new music, and who also have a bad attitude about it (no, the two do not always go together!), will say that this sounds like random doodling. People with more experience will say that it sounds like disconnected notes but the sonorities are nice. People who listen to a fair amount of new music will be able to hear that it's a very tightly constructed piece, nothing random or disconnected about it. And smart-asses like myself will inevitably add at this point that there's naught wrong with random or disconnected.

    Or so I've noticed in the past....

  13. #13
    Commodore con Forza Andrew Roussak's Avatar
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    Well, some guy, surely I agree that such remarks as "crap" or "toilet music" are not the evidence of higher intellect or deep experience. But I would say also, concerning the comments on YouTube, people who just post smth. like "genious" or "music of the future " do not work more convincing for me as well. People may just act differently in the same situation. Some would say "crap" to any music they do not understand, and the other might say "great" or "genious", because they had read it somewhere and would prefer to look thus more intelligent.

    Actually I have got not a slightest doubt that the piece, as well as all others composed by Stockhausen, must be perfectly constructed - what else can one expect from a professor of music? I have really very basical knowledge in a theorie of the serial music - that is, I know which are the rules for building a 12-tone serie, which things are to be avoided etc. I have never tried to analyse any piece of Stockhausen, because I just don't have the scores ( well, I have some of Gubaidullina, which are serial too - doesn't matter ).

    What I actually mean here - I strongly suppose, that even if I had analysed each and every tone in the serie and knew exactly - yes , this cluster must follow precisely at this time and place - I would not still like what I hear. I have tried, seriously tried many times ( you can listen to the new music on a radio station SWR2 in Germany, Baden - W├╝rttemberg - any time of the day... ) - and failed to fall in love with it...

    Maybe I am wrong - I don't know. Can you describe , in rather common terms, the positive emotions you experience, listening to Stockhausen? I do not mean the visual parts here, like Kontakte or Hymnes. Do you, truly and honestly, enjoy what you are listening, or is it only amazingly interesting for you?

    Best regards,
    Andrew
    Last edited by Andrew Roussak; Dec-18-2007 at 12:31.
    "Once you have tasted flight, you will ever walk with your eyes turned skywards; for there you have been, and there you long to return." - Leonardo Da Vinci


    www.andrew-roussak.com

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    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
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    Hi Mr. Roussak,

    Those are excellent questions you posed at the end of your post - "Do you enjoy" or "Is it amazingly interesting"? I would define those questions you posed as intelligent questions - ones that call upon greater reflection, not just a standard *yes* or *no* answer.

    Since we are on the subject of Stockhausen, I shall humbly add that I'm interested in how he goes about creating the sounds, nuances, and patterns. Now, do I *enjoy* his music? Well, no. It does not evoke an emotional response nor does it caress my g-string

    Humbly and respectfully,

    Corno Dolce
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

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    Commodore con Forza Andrew Roussak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corno Dolce View Post
    Hi Mr. Roussak,

    Those are excellent questions you posed at the end of your post - "Do you enjoy" or "Is it amazingly interesting"? I would define those questions you posed as intelligent questions - ones that call upon greater reflection, not just a standard *yes* or *no* answer.

    Since we are on the subject of Stockhausen, I shall humbly add that I'm interested in how he goes about creating the sounds, nuances, and patterns. Now, do I *enjoy* his music? Well, no. It does not evoke an emotional response nor does it caress my g-string

    Humbly and respectfully,

    Corno Dolce
    Hi mr.Corno Dolce ( rear admiral, Sir!!,)

    thanks for it! Maybe I should be somehow more specific about what I mean. Rather difficult to express it...Well, let me try like this - can atonal music make somebody cry?

    Cheers,
    mr. Andrew , still only captain...






    "Once you have tasted flight, you will ever walk with your eyes turned skywards; for there you have been, and there you long to return." - Leonardo Da Vinci


    www.andrew-roussak.com

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