Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 23

Thread: Organ Stop called Sackbutt

  1. #1
    Admiral of Fugues Contratrombone64's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    5,340
    Post Thanks / Like

    Organ Stop called Sackbutt

    I was looking for a picture of a rank called Sackbutt ... to no avail, though Google did vomit up this when I typed "organ and sackbutt" into its search engine (go figure).

    http://www.oratoriosocietyofny.org/i...mor/aire_1.jpg

  2. #2
    Administrator Krummhorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
    Posts
    7,959
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    3
    Hi CT64,

    Found this entry for Sackbut in the online Dictionary of Organ Stops. No picture, but I'll keep looking ... maybe our resident info expert, Corno Dolce, will be able to help find one ...
    Kh ~~.
    Administrator


    Amateur musicians practice until they get it right ...
    Pro
    fessional musicians practice until they can't get it wrong ...


  3. #3
    Admiral of Fugues Contratrombone64's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    5,340
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hi Krummiest-horn .... thanks for that link, very useful to know. I know that York Minster has a 32' Sackbut on the pedal ... must, I figure, sound like a contra trombone or something

  4. #4
    Admiral of Fugues Contratrombone64's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    5,340
    Post Thanks / Like
    I just noticed that I'm now a "Captain of Water Music" ... how odd!!

  5. #5
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    10,538
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hi Krummhorn,

    Resident expert, eh? You do me greater honor than I could even imagine - I have thought about myself as an *expert in non-working solutions* however...

    Well, here's the lay of the land: A Sackbut is the distant relative of the Orchestral Trombone. It is of a smaller scale than the orchestral instrument. I have not been able to find a picture of one as an organ stop but I could guesstimate that it would be just a small-scale 32' trombone stop in York Minster. It depends on what the builder envisioned for the pedal division. The builder could just as easily have specced a large-scale 32' trombone stop for a large amount of driven sound but that might have swamped the rest of the divisions. The builder might have engaged in some artistic liberty by adopting the nomenclature *sackbut* for the Pedal trombone.

    Anyway, if it is of help, open this page:

    http://www.organstops.org/t/Trombone.html

    I would look at this and envision a pipe resonator aka exponential horn that was of smaller scale i.e. narrower...again, I can only guesstimate - I may be way out in left field... <: - ?


    Cheers,

    Corno Dolce
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  6. #6
    Admiral of Fugues Contratrombone64's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    5,340
    Post Thanks / Like
    I think sackbut is totally and utterly an affectation ... a quaint one at that, too.

  7. #7
    Administrator Krummhorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona
    Posts
    7,959
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Contratrombone64 View Post
    I just noticed that I'm now a "Captain of Water Music" ... how odd!!
    Hi CT64,

    You achieved "Captain" at 250 posts. At 500 posts your title will change to "Commodore".
    Kh ~~.
    Administrator


    Amateur musicians practice until they get it right ...
    Pro
    fessional musicians practice until they can't get it wrong ...


  8. #8
    Admiral of Fugues Contratrombone64's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    5,340
    Post Thanks / Like
    Commodore - does that mean I can make people walk the plank??

  9. #9
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    10,538
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hi CT64,

    As a Commodore you'll get to serve your fellow man even more in Latrine Duty, Potatoe-peeling, deck swabbing, rust abatement, propellershaft greasing, stoker, chimney sweep, dish washing, bilge cleaner...get my drift?

    Cheers,

    Corno Dolce
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  10. #10
    Rear Admiral Appassionata
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,055
    Post Thanks / Like
    Yep Corno Dolce, but please allow me to elaborate further. The Sackbut is a direct ancestor of the modern trombone. It is of a narrower bore, and has a much smaller bell flare where the sound comes out, so it is by nature much quieter than the modern trombone. They were even known to come in various keys denoted by the length of the 'closed' tube (slide) allowing a range from a bass sackbut pitched in a low G to a tenor in Bb or B moving to the alto, pitched Eb or E, and the soprano pitched at a high Bb or B. This was a result of the overal tube length giving the pitch for the instrument.

    Since this was before the invention of the valve, the Horn of the time could only alter notes by a means hand stopping, a method of bending the airflow to change the sound, and changing the key of the instrument was done by inserting extra pipe lengths called crooks. The 'trumpet' could change notes by means of opening and closing holes along the tube length, usually two were provided, The sackbut was unique among the early brass instruments in that it could play an entire scale by moving the slide in and out to change the length of the pipe. By moving higher or lower in the harmonic series, only seven positions of the slide were necessary for the entire scale to be possible.

  11. #11
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    10,538
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hi NEB,

    Thank you for filling in where I left off. I have tooted on sackbuts a few times and love the sweet tone that can be produced by them.

    Cheers,

    Corno Dolce
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  12. #12
    Rear Admiral Appassionata
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,055
    Post Thanks / Like
    Lovely aren't they - I did some recordings years ago where we used sackbuts and shaums....

  13. #13
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    10,538
    Post Thanks / Like
    Sackbuts and Shawms - what a delectable combination! Then there's the organ stop called a serpent - now thats a WACKY instrument! For the benefit of the forum members who have never seen such a beast:

    http://www.music.ed.ac.uk/euchmi/ucj/ucjg3303.gif

    Doug Yeo, Principal Bass Trombonist in the Boston Phil plays this instrument - he can make it sound really great. A quartet of these: Soprano, Alto, Tenor, and Bass were to be found doing light accompanying work with Church Choirs.
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

  14. #14
    Rear Admiral Appassionata
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,055
    Post Thanks / Like
    These serpents date back to blblical times don't they?

    Truly remarkable instruments...

  15. #15
    Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler Corno Dolce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    10,538
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hi NEB,

    Yes, I think you're onto something there my friend. Truly one of the older instruments, beyond the usual suspects of flute, reed and drum...

    Cheers,

    Corno Dolce
    *If a man wants God to hear his prayer quickly, then before he prays for anything else, even his own soul, when he stands and stretches out his hands towards God, he must pray with all his heart for his enemies. Through this action God will hear everything that he asks* -Abba Zeno-

    *Protagoras: "Truth is subjective. What is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me. Your opinion is true by virtue of its being your opinion."

    *Socrates: "My opinion is: Truth is absolute, not opinion, and that you are in absolute error. Since this is my opinion, then according to your philosophy you must grant that it is true."

    "Improvisational Art": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSxVO3EoCRM

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Pipe organs in the movies! (updated)
    By Frederik Magle in forum Pipe Organ Forum
    Replies: 82
    Last Post: Dec-14-2014, 00:55
  2. The Walcker Organ in Riga Cathedral
    By Frederik Magle in forum Pipe Organ Forum
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: Apr-09-2010, 16:58
  3. The Wanamaker Legacy, Organ CD Review
    By Frederik Magle in forum Pipe Organ Forum
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: Jan-08-2008, 01:05
  4. Beginner Organist
    By bonh-101 in forum Pipe Organ Forum
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: Mar-08-2006, 19:23

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •