Liszt's Transcendental Etudes

[OverFjell]

So I'm working on Liszt's Transcendental Etude #4, but unfortunately, my technique is not quite up to scratch, does anyone know of any excercises that could help boost my technique?

[Corno Dolce]

Hello OverFjell,

You are attempting to play this Liszt Etude?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJcfBDwSX6I

I'm really impressed. I will most humbly suggest that you plow through some of Carl Czerny's exercise Etudes. Do proper finger and wrist warm-up techniques, please.

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

[Krummhorn]

Wow, Corno Dolce ... Czerny ... now that's a blast from the past. Still have mine from my piano lessons days a half century ago ... also have Doheny's (sp?) book of piano exercises that got well worn, but still exists in my music library files.

Both are excellent books for warmups, techniques and wrist placement as well as fingering. Of course, also having a tutor helps in the learning processes.

[Corno Dolce]

Hello Krummhorn,

Imho Czerny is still a very proper method to use. If our MIMF staff piano pedagogue RoJo knows of a much better method, I shall duly take note of her suggestion and recommendation. I acknowledge her as more pro in pedagogy than I ever could be.

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

[Contratrombone64]

I'm not so sure all those repetitve and mind bogglingly tedious studies are any good frankly, as they can cause strain from over use. Nothing beats a walloping out all major and minor scales and arpeggios over four octaves at a reasonable tempo (note perfect of course) as a warm up. Then taking the study in question and working at it methodically in chunks. Unlearning mistakes, in my experience is hard work. Czerny is a bore, and so is Hanon ... but most pianists swear by them.

[Clarissa]

Why did you stop practicing to post this? The majority of the people here, I am quite sure, cannot even play one note on the piano. If you really can play the transcendental etudes and are indeed at that level of virtuosic genius, then you should not be on the internet at all. You should be playing Carnegie Hall in front of a large, highly sophisticated, intelligent audience.

[rojo]

I think (and don't quote me on this, because I could be wrong) Horowitz was known for not playing scales and so on because he found them boring; he only played studies.

I tend to agree with Contratrombone64 though. Scales and so on are indeed a great warm up. That said, I've used Czerny, Hanon and Pischna studies. Some Czerny studies are good fun, Hanon stuff is a bit dull but cool to play when you get some speed going (like scales), and the Pischna is similar to Hanon, but different. Most of those will be too easy for you though, and won't really help you with this piece.

To be completely honest, I warm up on pieces that I know well; maybe you could use other pieces you already play as well. I really feel that each piece has it's own technical difficulties, and one can't play all day long, so maybe just do a couple of scales in octaves to warm up? I notice there are some passages in the piece where there are lots of them. Besides, this piece is already an etude, or study to begin with! (Not that I could imagine using this piece to 'warm up' for anything; it's already a masterpiece in itself.) Or maybe just warm up on certain parts of the piece, and be careful to work out a good fingering. Finding a teacher who has played the piece, as Kh suggests is also a good idea. I, for one, have not.

I think each person has to find what system of practice works best for them through trial and error. In general, any playing is good playing.

(Thanks for the kudos, CD. )

[Corno Dolce]

Dear Ms. RoJo,

Thank you for your insight in pedagogy and how OverFjell can successfully tackle a major Liszt Etude.

Btw - you are welcome - I firmly believe in giving homage and credit where homage and credit are due.

Humbly,

Corno Dolce

[Andrew Roussak]

Hello everybody,

my 5 ( no - 2 ) cents for this thread.
I do actually recommend Czerny and Hanon etudes only to those pupils ( students ) , who as I see or believe, are really able and want themselves to practise them regularly. I don't know anything more boring than these things. Nevertheless, some ( honestly, very few ) do really play them regularly , without any pressure from my side - then it is Okay.
Though, as I believe, these etudes are not really great help for some modern techniques - that is, if you are to play smth. from Gershwin, or any other piece having complex chord structures - you can as well forget about Czerny.

For me, a good alternative are the Inventions of Bach - all of them; well, actually not only inventions. To play and exercise these things is a fun in itself, and it brings really good results, as I can see.

Scales and arpeggios? Can't imagine how can anyone warm up without them. It is just a MUST...

Concerning Liszt ( to OverFjell ) - well, I believe, each of his pieces is a study in itself. I would try to exercise the most difficult bars separately, say 4 bars in a run, left hand - right hand, at different speeds, and by heart anyway. That is, if your general level is ok for the piece, there is nothing impossible.

Btw., rojo ( and others interested ) - I have recently discovered a wonderful exercise for a warm-up, based on so called Brahmsübung ( chromatical runs ). It was re-invented and complemented by Jordan Rudess ( piano & keys by Dream Theater ) . The thing is absolutely great - can get your fingers from 0 to 50C in 5 minutes! If interested, i can try to describe it , or post here scores ( only don't know how to do it - as a PDF? ).

Cheers
Andrew

[Contratrombone64]

Clarissa, don't you think your comment was rather rude? You're obviously jealous of this person's abilities at the piano otherwise you'd not have vented. I say good luck to him/her for taking time out and joining a pleasant community.