• Welcome to the Pipe Organ Forum! This is a part of the open community Magle International Music Forums focused on pipe organs (also known as "church organs"), organists, organ music and related topics.

    This forum is intended to be a friendly place where technically advanced organists and beginners (or even non-organists) can feel comfortable having discussions and asking questions. We learn by reading and asking questions, and it is hoped that the beginners (or non-organists) will feel free to ask even the simplest questions, and that the more advanced organists will patiently answer these questions. On the other hand, we encourage complex, technical discussions of technique, music, organ-building, etc. The opinions and observations of a diverse group of people from around the world should prove to be interesting and stimulating to all of us.

    As pipe organ discussions can sometimes become lively, it should be pointed out that this is an open forum. Statements made here are the opinion of the poster, and not necessarily that of the forum itself, its administrator, or its moderators.

    In order to post a new topic - or reply to existing ones - you may join and become a member by clicking on Register New User. It's completely free and only requires a working email address (in order to confirm your registration - it will never be given away!). We strive to make this a friendly and informative forum for anyone interested in pipe organs and organ music.

    (Note: If you wish to link to and promote your own website please read this thread first.)

    Many kind regards
    smile.gif

    Frederik Magle
    Administrator

    Krummhorn
    Co-Administrator

Two 64 footers in one spot, hear them both sing

Daniel Palmer

New member
That's a good site... It's a shame there aren't any full length 64' stops in the UK.:cry: though there are some great cathedral organs near where I live (York Minster and Lincoln Cathedral). York Minster has some 32' open pipes outside the organ case as can be seen here.

Daniel
 
Contratrombone64

Contratrombone64

Admiral of Fugues
Daniel, it is a shame, and of all the places where they would actually fit, some of the huge British cathedrals are prime examples!
 

Westhill

New member
Can someone describe the effect these stops have on the ensemble, in the room? Do you actually hear it, feel it? Do they work with mp to fff registrations? It must be a considerable expense to build such a stop. Does the cost warrant the effect, the musical effect? Is this a case of 'mine bigger than yours"?
Always been very curious about the 64 and thanks for the link to hear one - albeit through my computer speakers!
W.
W.
 
Krummhorn

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
Hi Westhill,

A 64' pipe playing low C produces sound at 8 HZ, or 8 cycles per second. The human ear can only hear down to about 20Hz. What establishes the note that we "hear" are all the upper harmonics ... the rest is "felt", if we were to be in the same room where it is being played, or the sound is reproduced on a "killer home AV system."

The two 64' ranks mentioned are at extremely high wind pressures ... they would hardly be used for mp situations. On the other hand, there are softer 32' stops, for example the Untersatz, which lends itself well to the softer combinations used in the pipe organ.

The 64' stops, is, imho, a novelty item ... there is some organ literature that specifically calls out for a 64' stop. Not one single pipe organ where I live has a 32' rank, but we organists are still able to play those pieces that suggest using such a stop.

Is it a question of 'mine better than yours' ? I don't think so ... Heck, if one has the $$ to spend on this rank, all the better. For most church organ budgets, even a modest 32' pipe rank is totally out of the question.
 

Westhill

New member
64

K: Thanks for your post. Yes, you say felt... the same way we hear an open 32 come on in an organ piece? It must be so sub-sonic. I find the 32 gives a certain -earthquake- or -subway under your feet- feel. A 64 must just feel as if the subway is really close:).
Do we hear these pitches at he movies? I think I know what you are talking about. Movie sound systems are so extravagant I often feel like I'm being shaken from the start of the movie to the end.
W
 
Contratrombone64

Contratrombone64

Admiral of Fugues
Westhill - both of the world's two 64 footers are reed stops, I've only heard (and played) the monster at Sydney Town Hall. What the august Krummiest says is true, they are novelty stops. In fact, in a book written by Robert Ampt on the history of the Sydney Town Hall organ there are reproduced comments made by the maker about the introduciton of this unique stop that led me to believe that it wasn't done for novelty's sake, rather to introduce extended technique in organ building.

The Contratrombone can be clearly heard (at least down to the lowest G of the pedal's capacity, then felt below that) over the full organ, and the Sydney Town Halls Great Trumpets (4' 8' 16') are damned noisy.

Whilst I think it's a nice thing to have, it is not the organ's main attraction. I remeber recently going on a tour of the insides of the Sydney Town Hall monster and Mr Ampt gave us a thrilling discourse on its mechanism and ins and outs. Including showing us the kitchen sink and workbench inside (on the right hand side of the organ against the back wall).

For me, the 32' stops that I adore are the flute ones ... whether it be a diapason, montre, or whatever, they do actually produce a wonderful "quaking". I personally find the 32' reed stops a little overbearing, like a fat mother-in-law or aunt, always getting in the way but a very necessary part of the family.
 
methodistgirl

methodistgirl

New member
Daniel Palmer said:
That's a good site... It's a shame there aren't any full length 64' stops in the UK.:cry: though there are some great cathedral organs near where I live (York Minster and Lincoln Cathedral). York Minster has some 32' open pipes outside the organ case as can be seen here.

Daniel
Click to expand...
The top picture is beautiful. Breathtaking!
judy tooley
 

Mush

New member
The 64 I used to play just kind of modulated everything else. If I had all of the 32' ranks going, you wouldn't really notice the 64 under them. But with just a handful of 32s, the 64 beefed it up quite a bit. When the spotlights were on, they shook and the beams moved all over. Right after you released a note you can hear the big stainglass windows stop whipping back and forth, I worred about them falling apart.
 
Contratrombone64

Contratrombone64

Admiral of Fugues
I'm afraid none of them (apart from Sydney and Atlantic City) are proper 64 foot stops. As someone here said (amusingly) "they're an expensive draught ..."
 
Corno Dolce

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Hi CT64,

That would be me who mentioned the "expensive draught". Now, in the interest of full disclosure I must dutifully mention that I "picked up" that term from reading Noel Bonavia-Hunt's treatise on organ building.

Cheers,

CD :):):):):):):)
 

smilingvox

New member
Daniel Palmer said:
That's a good site... It's a shame there aren't any full length 64' stops in the UK.:cry: though there are some great cathedral organs near where I live (York Minster and Lincoln Cathedral). York Minster has some 32' open pipes outside the organ case as can be seen here.

Daniel
Click to expand...

Hello Daniel,

At first glance, one might believe that the 1829 Elliott organ case, at York, contains the entire organ we know today, but the 32' Double Diapason shows an alternative for the placement of such large pipes. That, plus the Double Open Wood and Sackbut, couldn't possibly all be stuffed into the case.

Visually, I like that kind of distribution, pipework inside and outside the case as long as the case is given some visual breathing space.

Could you tell us where the other two 32s are located? Any photos?
And what pipes are those in the fourth photo?

Thanks!
 

Daniel Palmer

New member
Hi smilingvox,

I don't know that much about the York Minster organ. I don't get there that often, though the last time I was there a wedding was on and so I ended up hearing a sort of mini-recital!

As far as I recall, there are some other pipes in the same place as the ones in the photo, but on the opposite side of the Quire. I imagine that they are part of another 32' stop, possibly two, but I am only guessing at this point. I don't know about the pipes in the fourth photo.

I'll try to get some photos the next time I go, which will probably be some time away, I'm afraid. Hope this bit of info is of use.

Daniel
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top