Criminal Punishment - Your Thoughts

[intet_at_tabe]

Ok, Intet. what do you think will work. maybe psychological counseling and community service?

Please Muza dear, do not make sarcastic fun of it. The death penalty is the easy way out for these bastards, they have to suffer the rest of their lives each day and each hour of the day with other misfits like themselves, to remind them each day what they did to innocent children.

They are adults, and no matter what, they should not just be killed, but we should scientificly keep them under supervison, like monkeys in the Zoo.

[Krummhorn]

Agreed, Intet ...
But here in the states, we have groups like the ACLU who like to complain that our criminals are being treated with "cruel and unusual punishment" - to that I say, and what wasn't "cruel and unusual" about what the criminal did to the victim?

(ACLU = American Civil Liberties Union - not an organized labor union, but a collection of, imho, freaks and troublemakers who try anything and everything to protect the criminally liable).

[C5Says]

Please Muza dear, do not make sarcastic fun of it. The death penalty is the easy way out for these bastards, they have to suffer the rest of their lives each day and each hour of the day with other misfits like themselves, to remind them each day what they did to innocent children.

They are adults, and no matter what, they should not just be killed, but we should scientificly keep them under supervison, like monkeys in the Zoo.

Imprison them with apes! And throw the key.

[Muza]

Intet, I am in no way making sarcasting fun out of it (or didnt mean to anyhow) - i think its too important. I seriously want to know, because that seems to be the answer to a lot of crimes lately, and I think its ridiculous.

Im not for bloodshed and killing people per se, I am advocating the mere removal of those people from society (because honestly, im a little afraid of them). Im all for life long imprisonment for these people, but I also have a few problems with that. And my biggest problem is - that those just arent given anymore. I dont know what kind of crime one has to commit these days to get a life sentence. Also, I think prison system has to be reorganized a bit, but i wont get into that now.

And since you have suggested that they should be locked up and under supervision, you agree that the chance of those people changing is somewhat slim, right? Or at least, slim enough to be taking chances with letting them back into society.

[Muza]

Hi C5 I think you've got the right idea... if not for that ACLU that Krummhorn mentioned.

I totally agree Krummhorn, you are absolutely correct and I think thats the source of the problem. The system would almost work, if it wasnt for stupid idiots that you have mentioned - those idiots singing about human rights, and how every human has a right to be treated as a human, regardless of the crimes that he/she committs. Well guess what, the victims of those criminals have rights too - right to be treated as a human being, which was brutally violated. And so do the rest of the people, they have a right to live without a fear of those criminals.

But I think we all agree on that anyways, its just that we have a different idea on how to implement that.

[C5Says]

If you want to be treated as a human being, act as a human being. Even animals treated as human beings act as human beings so if animals and human beings act as animals, they should be treated as animals.

[Muza]

The words of wisdom, C5!!!!

[intet_at_tabe]

Agreed, Intet ...
But here in the states, we have groups like the ACLU who like to complain that our criminals are being treated with "cruel and unusual punishment" - to that I say, and what wasn't "cruel and unusual" about what the criminal did to the victim?

(ACLU = American Civil Liberties Union - not an organized labor union, but a collection of, imho, freaks and troublemakers who try anything and everything to protect the criminally liable).

Master Krummhorn

Agreed for the better part of your post. As I´ve stated, I only spoke of the crimes like pedophilism here done against children, where the perpetraitor or the mother or father/the pedophile is within the family (most cases happens on the home front). If we kill them, we are as a society not any better than they are and worse we haven´t learned anything at all.

Of course it does bring up another question, of the overpopulation of prisons in general in the USA, and how well the correction system work for criminals to no repaet crimes again, which you guys in the US are familiar to, which brings us to the key of the matter. How do we invent a prison system a correction system, where the criminal will actually be "healed" so he does not do the crime again. It has not so far been done anywhere in the world so far, but I still say we are better of if, we as a society learn how these bastards work, what make them kick before they actually put their fantasy into the works. Because the fantasy is not between the legs of a male pedophile and there are female pedophiles as well - mothers, sisters, aunts, the family members. It´s in the head between the ears the fantasy appears. Pedophilism has nothing whatsoever to do with sex, it´s all about victimising the child, controle it in every aspect 100 percent, through violent death treatening theats and playing God.

We give them medication so the thoughts or the fantasy within the prison can be decreased, and we can do this in Denmark if they are willing to eat it an ask to be treated for these fantasies, but after a sentence of let´s say 2 and 1/2 years, they have served their prison time, and nothing in this world can prohibit them for continueing their filthy inhuman buisness, often very profitable when first outside the prison again.

No, let´s keep them behind bars for life eighteen feet under and trewat them like animals, study them and learn from it so that we might some day create better methods to avoid the fantasy and act itself. Of course the ones who get caught are just to tip of the iceberg, and there are countries in the world, where children and grown ups perhaps has nothing to say about this - food is the price for being sexual abused, they are owned by the human perpetraitor - human traficcing.

In the Roman empire sexual abuse of children were common, on Greenland the culture is different from the culture in Denmark, so you´ll find many more pedophiles. The worst part though are the ones who actually create a economical fortune selling videos of children on the internet.

Of course the internet has done damage to the victims, because anyone with access to the internet can enter sites for pornography, prostitution, sex and what follows of distributing videos of children being abused sexualy perhaps even violently punished on videos.

I don´t have the right answer, but crimes done to children whether continued violence and abuse at the home front within the family (who always know) or pedophiles on the internet, we must attend this fact and create methods to avoid it.

Killing these bastards, and we have learned nothing.

Master Krummhorn, I have heard of and read about the ACLU, basicly a Civil Rights movement, who wants to improve the relations for prisoners while in prison. Often the same prisons where the strong guys, the lifetime criminals controle the prisons from within the prison, they might even controle the drugs distribition outside the prison from the inside.

Keep them seperated with no chance of company from others for life - isolation.

But in the US you have major problems, we don´t have in Denmark, because your society has evolved the conflict: Can the police and the court system protect lawfull citizens at all?

Respectfully,

[Corno Dolce]

Man, this is one BUSY thread.

I cannot condone the death penalty but life in prison in a Supermax facility. At a Supermax you are all by yourself with no contact with any other inmates.

[methodistgirl]

Reading about this news about this guy who had his own daughter
locked up in the basement all of those years and using her made
me really sick. I know how some of the indians used to treat some
one who broke their laws. It ment certain punishment and death.
Some tribes were rough on people who broke the law. I heard of
a tribe who baried the criminal up to their necks in sand right in
front of the ocean. Of course they drowned. The ACLU needs to
get a life themselves.

[Krummhorn]

Locally, the prisoners have too many resources made available to them. They have TV, internet, 3 square meals a day, access to library resources (some have learned enough about law to defend themselves in a trial), live in air conditioned/heated cells, etc etc.

Then they have the "right" (thank you idiotic ACLU) to riot and destroy the insides when they get Meatloaf 3 times in one week. No ... prison needs to be a place that doesn't look attractive to those on the outside ... needs to be a hard labor camp, not someplace that resembles a country club of sorts.

I heard years ago that one foreign country that had pretty much eliminated crime ... the penalty (if caught) was to lose the part of the body that committed the crime. If someone stole property, they lost their fingers or the entire hand ... no questions, no trial. If they committed rape, they lost ... well ... this is a supposed to be a GP rated forum, so let's just say they can no longer pro-create ... ... People got the idea, and rather quickly too ... no ACLU ... not even the great (self proclaimed) moderator himself, the Rev. Jesse Jackson, could reduce their sentences ... no courtroom trial ... just quick and done.

In the US, there are too many loopholes (thank you Congress) in the legal system ... some crimes never get to trial, others take 4-6 years just to get scheduled for trial, and then take another 4 years inside the courtroom ... all this, of course, at taxpayer expense, all during which the "criminal" has a free place to live, provided all their meals, free TV, internet ... all things which the very poor in our country do not have or cannot afford, but given freely to a charged criminal ... Whatever happened to those immortal words "where all men are created equal?"

I quite agree, Judy ... the ACLU needs a reality check.

[Corno Dolce]

I believe there is one Sheriff in Arizona named Joe Arpaio who runs a prison where the inmates sleep in tents surrounded by high electric fences topped with razor-bladed concertina wire. No A/C, Internet, T.V. and other creature comforts. They do hard labor and get food for their efforts. And the inmates get to wear pink underwear with their prison garb. Oh, and the cost to Arizona is supposedly $1500.00/year as opposed to $25,000 - $35,000 in other states.

Apropos foreign country with a unique justice system: I understand that in Saudi Arabia robbers and burglars get their hands chopped off, rapists get their_______lopped off, and murderers get their heads lopped off. These punishments are promulgated in the Hammurabic code.

[methodistgirl]

In central Mexico when the Mayan tribe was flurshing, if someone was
guilty of rape the chief would behead the guy and throw the rest of
his body down the stairs of one of those real tall temples after ripping
his heart out also. If someone was cought stealing he would get his
fingernails ripped out and then his fingers cut. If the rapest was a
young guy his weiner was lanced and something else cut off. If some
one there was cought making fun of the chief like we do President Bush,
his or her teeth were ripped out without novacaine! That's how those
natives took care of crime. The Astez practiced the same law but was
even bloodier.They didn't have the ACLU to tell them
what to do.
judy tooley

[intet_at_tabe]

Up-Date on Josef Fritzl, the respected Austrian stand up citizen from the small city of Amstetten, who kept his children, victimised imprisoned since 1984 in a 60 square metres basement, with two almost 600 pounds steel doors.

The basement had three rooms, one for washing clothes with no door to one for making food also with a lavatory and both shower and a washing zink, two bed rooms the biggest with a TV set. No light of day ever entered the basement.

The thousands of questions raised already can not be answered. Like how did he manage to bring food for so many people for so many years without anyone in the same city knew about it? How did he manage to bring 7 children to life in a basement, his own daughter being the mother? How did he alone bring the two almost 600 pounds steel doors to the basement? How can his wife say, she knew nothing while being married to the bastard? One child out of the seven died early on. Where did Josef Fritzl get rid of the body? How can such an incredible evil event take place without anyone at all knowing of it?

Rumours say, he was actually suspected in the mid 1990´s on sexual abuse of another child not his own, not living in the basement. Rumours say he went to Thailand in 2001 for a 14 days holidays, who took care of everything then?

Three of the girls he fathered were going to a public school and were alowed to be upstairs during the day. Why didn´t any of these three girls contact a teacher or the Police for help for their sisters and brothers down the basement? At the public school female school friends say they were happy like the rest of the teenage girls in the school.

The whole disclosure of this pedophile bastard came, when one of the daughters had to be hospitalised. Her skin was almost transparent from the lack of sunshine and light itself.

Not many years ago another pedophile scandale shook another small city in Austria, when the girl Natacha Kampusch escaped from her 6 years imprisonment, also the victim of sexual abuse from another stand up citizen in Austria.

[Muza]

Locally, the prisoners have too many resources made available to them. They have TV, internet, 3 square meals a day, access to library resources (some have learned enough about law to defend themselves in a trial), live in air conditioned/heated cells, etc etc.

Then they have the "right" (thank you idiotic ACLU) to riot and destroy the insides when they get Meatloaf 3 times in one week. No ... prison needs to be a place that doesn't look attractive to those on the outside ... needs to be a hard labor camp, not someplace that resembles a country club of sorts.

In the US, there are too many loopholes (thank you Congress) in the legal system ... some crimes never get to trial, others take 4-6 years just to get scheduled for trial, and then take another 4 years inside the courtroom ... all this, of course, at taxpayer expense, all during which the "criminal" has a free place to live, provided all their meals, free TV, internet ... all things which the very poor in our country do not have or cannot afford, but given freely to a charged criminal ... Whatever happened to those immortal words "where all men are created equal?"

I quite agree, Judy ... the ACLU needs a reality check.

This is exactly my problem with prisons in the US. Its a freaking vacation. We need to make them work - some hard labor would do them no harm. Besides, i think this would also be a partial answer to illegal immigration. Since we have so much work available for illegal immigrants, and the main argument of politicians who dont want to do anything about it is Americans dont want to do that kinda work anyways, why dont we make inmates do that work?

Kills two birds with one stone in my opinion - criminals actually do work (so we are not just paying for them to chill, watch tv, and go to gym everyday), and the society benefits economically! Let them build buildings, clean roads, plant trees/food, whatever it is! Result? Stronger economy and healthier society