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How to select registration

AllanP

New member
One of the least documented topics in organ playing is the subject of registration. The question is "How to select registration?"

Some issues are
1. When to use a diapason chorus?
2. When to use a single diapason as a solo stop?
3. Do you ever use a flute chorus? Are all stopped flutes used together, are all open flutes used together, or use a mixture of stopped and open flutes?
4. Are flutes added to diapasons, at all pitches or just a few pitches.
5. When are 8' stops combined? (My first teacher said never)
6. When using trumpets, what added stops are used? For example 8' stops to make the trumpet more like a Tuba, 4' stops with 8' trumpet, and/or higher pitches such as mutations and mixtures.
7. When are 16' manual stops appropriate?

There is very little literature on the subject of registration selection. It is generally left to the student to learn from the teacher by a process akin to osmosis following the teacher's selection. I am learning a piece written by Richard Purvis, my teacher who studied with Mr. Purvis told me "this is how he played the piece", thus registration is handed down by word of mouth.

Are there general rules that give guidance?
 

stoferb

New member
Hi there. I'm not very experienced with organs having only played less than a year, and this is my first post in this forum, but here's what I've found out so far.

The one registration rule of thumb I have learned so far is that you always start with a 8' stop and never use combinations that lack a 8'stop. Other than that I go by ear. I usually add atleast one 4' or 2' stop before adding a mixture or a diapason. Diapasons go great with reeds, making them less wood-wind and more brass-instrument, or if you want to create a reed-like sound without reeds (which I must do in one of the two organs I have access to, as the reeds are severely out of tune). I've never heard that you shouldn't combine 8' stops, I do it all the time, but if you want a softer dynamic it's good advice. And often some 8' stops aren't heard when combined with other 8' stops anyway. I wish I had more 16' manual stops, there's only one at one of my two organs. I think it works best in combination with reeds and/or mixture in louder dynamics.

I would think that the difference between instruments is too great to allow a detailed set of rules. You simply have to try out which combination that works. It will be interesting what other more experienced organists has to say about this. :)
 

acc

Member
5. When are 8' stops combined? (My first teacher said never)


Ah, yes: the famous Äqualverbot. Well, first of all there is the romantic literature, where many composers (especially the French) explicitly ask for 8' stops (even all 8' stops) to be combined.

But even in the baroque repertoire, I have my doubts about what, say, Bach really did (will we ever know?) vs. what the neobaroque dogma of the 1960s dictates. For example, doesn't one often think that "romantic organs have many 8' stops whereas baroque organs only have a few"? Well, if you look at the specifications of, say, Altenburg (Trost 1739), Naumburg (Hildebrandt 1746), or Ottobeuren (Riepp 1766), with three, four, or even five 8' stops on some manuals, it makes me think again (BTW, J.S.Bach knew, and much appreciated, the first two of these instruments). Heck, even most Cavaillé-Coll's don't have five 8' stops in a single manual!

So I'm very sceptical about the idea that you never combine 8' stops.
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Ach Du Liebe - All that Neo-Baroque and Orgelbewegung Dogma - GAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!:shake::shake::shake::scold::scold::scold:

This period of organ history is the saddest - so many beautiful Skinners, Aeolians, Hook and Hastings, Jardines etc. etc. etc. have gone to waste because of the crooks in the orgelbewegung and neo-baroque movement.

Let history abort, terminate and forget that most shameful movement.
 

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
One of the least documented topics in organ playing is the subject of registration. The question is "How to select registration?"

Some issues are
1. When to use a diapason chorus?
2. When to use a single diapason as a solo stop?
3. Do you ever use a flute chorus? Are all stopped flutes used together, are all open flutes used together, or use a mixture of stopped and open flutes?
4. Are flutes added to diapasons, at all pitches or just a few pitches.
5. When are 8' stops combined? (My first teacher said never)
6. When using trumpets, what added stops are used? For example 8' stops to make the trumpet more like a Tuba, 4' stops with 8' trumpet, and/or higher pitches such as mutations and mixtures.
7. When are 16' manual stops appropriate?

There is very little literature on the subject of registration selection. It is generally left to the student to learn from the teacher by a process akin to osmosis following the teacher's selection. I am learning a piece written by Richard Purvis, my teacher who studied with Mr. Purvis told me "this is how he played the piece", thus registration is handed down by word of mouth.

Are there general rules that give guidance?


Hi AllanP,

During my years of private organ study, I was given basic ideas for registrations. Then it was up to us to "fill in the blanks" given the tonal resources of what our primary instrument had to offer. Few of us have ever had (or will ever have) the vast number of ranks to use as Mr. Purvis had at his disposal.

Does this mean that we should never attempt a given piece for lack of sufficient organ ranks? IMHO, certainly not ... just because the composer calls out a 32' pedal stop and we don't have one should never preclude our playing of that piece on the organ we have at our disposal. My church instrument is but 9 ranks, basically a "service instrument" in all respects, but despite is humble size, I've managed to romp out such pieces as the Franck Chorale No.3 in A Minor, and Mendelssohn Sonata I in concert performances over the years with lots of imagination in registration and tricky stop changes with only four general pistons below the Swell keyboard.

As to 8' stops being combined ... I try to avoid it unless the two or more stops at the same pitch compliment each other and don't "muddy" the sound too much. In my own church instrument there are 5 - 8' pitched stops:
  • 8' Principal (Gt)
  • 8' Gedeckt (Gt
  • 8' Spitzflöte (Sw)
  • 8' Gemshorn (Sw)
  • 8' Trompette (Sw)
I seldom merge the Principal and Gedeckt, as it becomes too muddy, but the Gedeckt and Gemshorn make for a nice warm complimentary sound.

Stopped & Open flutes. My church instrument has but two ranks of flutes: 1) Sw: Spitzflöte wired @ 8', 4' 2' Metal pipes - Open
2) Gt: Gedeckt wired @ 8', 4', 2' Metal pipes - Stopped
I will use them together sparingly, perhaps like this:
  • Sw 8' & 2' Spitzflöte coupled to Gt 4' Gedeckt
With the swell shades open partially, I have a nice contrasting registration between the two manuals.

When pulling the reed into the ensemble mix, I cancel the 8' Principal and draw its 4' counterpart instead - keeps things from getting too "hooty", at least on this instrument. The acoustical properties of my church have the same properties as a loaf of bread. Musicalis, a member here, has added some reverb into a MP3 recording I did for him recently, and the result was fantastic.

So, basically, for registration, we organists are pretty much left on our own, especially those of us with limited tonal resources.
 

acc

Member
Ach Du Liebe - All that Neo-Baroque and Orgelbewegung Dogma - GAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!:shake::shake::shake::scold::scold::scold:

This period of organ history is the saddest - so many beautiful Skinners, Aeolians, Hook and Hastings, Jardines etc. etc. etc. have gone to waste because of the crooks in the orgelbewegung and neo-baroque movement.

Let history abort, terminate and forget that most shameful movement.


Hi Corno,

Well, I wouldn't put it that harshly. Besides its aberrations and exagerations, the neobaroque mouvement has had a lot of good insights I'm not ready to throw away. Don't forget that it started as a reaction to the romantic schools, which could sometimes be equally dogmatic (e.g. Dupré's rules about playing Bach), and which had its own history of wasting good instruments for pure matters of taste (falsely disguised into "objective" arguments). Maybe we're just less aware of this because it goes back further into the past.
 

Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Hi ACC,

I will gladly entertain your thoughts on this subject anyday of the week. Yes, the romantic school could be equally dogmatic. However, I'm a bit more lenient towards the romantic school since some really great ideas for different pipe sounds came out of that school of thought. I consider Cavaille-Coll organs to be in the romantic vein but with classical restraint. I can't view the neo-baroque movement showing any restraint. *Shriekwerks* come to mind.

Humbly,

CD :tiphat::tiphat::tiphat::tiphat:
 

acc

Member
Hi CD,

My personal taste tends to agree with yours about "shriekwerks". But then, when I try to take a step back and look at the situation, the previous generation (i.e. the one who introduced those "shriekwerks") made similar complaints about romantic organs being "too dark", and considered their predecessors to be much better. It seems that any generation N has had problems with generation N-1, blaming them for wasting the organs of generation N-2 which were sooo much more beautiful than those of generation N-1. As a result, they in turn start wasting the organs of generation N-1, for which they then get blamed for by generation N+1 on the same grounds, etc.
 
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Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Most honorable ACC,

Oh yes, I do like what you shared since it lets me reflect on some of the issues. For *Baroque* organs I have always marveled at the work of Joseph Gabler like the masterpiece in Weingarten - He's got these huge multi-rank mixtures but they never shriek. But then Maitre Aristide's work turns upside down the dogmatic antics of those who argued for a romantic or orgelbewegung school. Is there any reconciling to be done betwixt the excesses of orgelbewegung and romantic organ? At this moment none is apparent. Therefore, I'm forever grateful for what Aristide bequeathed unto the world.

Humbly,

CD
 

AllanP

New member
Thank everyone for these comments. I will try out the suggestions on my own organ and see how it works. My instrument has 6 8' stops
Trumpet
Diapason
Tibia
Salicional
Flute (open, wood inverted mouth)
Vox Humana

We had a Christmas carol sing last year with an accomplished church organist who played the accompaniment. He used 8' Diapason, 8' Tibia, 4' Flute, 2' Piccolo which combination sounded good with the shutters mostly closed. I had thought that the Tibia was too heavy, but his combination worked very well with the singers.

I fully agree with the neo-baroque comments having started learning to play in the mid 70's. At that time classical organists had no tolerance for any music later than Bach and any organ that wasn't shrill.

Thanks again for your help.

Allan
 

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
Thank everyone for these comments. I will try out the suggestions on my own organ and see how it works. My instrument has 6 8' stops
Trumpet
Diapason
Tibia
Salicional
Flute (open, wood inverted mouth)
Vox Humana

Allan

Hi AllanP,

Your stoplist closely resembles and old Wicks theatre organ that I played for 7 years in my 2nd church position. It was 5 rks, but didn't have the Trumpet as part of the original spec.

In that organ, I found little use for the Tibia as it was voiced way too hooty - eventually traded the Tibia for a Cornopean 4' rank, and installed it myself (re-drilling [enlarging] the toe boards, etc). The organ could finally be heard at the rear of the nave :lol:.

I also closed the caps on the VH, and tuned that rank sharp to the Salicional, rendering a cheap celeste - strange in sound, but very effective especially with the theatrical trem. That instrument ran on 15" wind - needed constant tuning, which I also did after the regular organ tech died (nobody else in the state would touch that beast).
 

AllanP

New member
The chamber is temperature controlled and the tuning is quite stable. I find the combination of the Vox and Salicional give somewhat of a celeste action especially like all short resonator reeds, the Vox is always slightly out of tune. It does not really sound like a true celeste but serves the purpose. The wind pressure is the standard Wurlitzer pressure of 10", with the Vox on 6".

Your comment about the Tibia also applies to my Tibia, in classical ensemble combinations it usually does not blend. A nice combination is 8' Tibia and 2' Piccolo for a lighter tone.

When would 8' and 4' diapasons be used alone? Should the pedal also be 16' and 8' diapasons to match or use a 16' Bourdon and 8' Diapason for more solid sounding bass?

AllanP
 

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
Hi AllanP

When I register the 8' & 4' Principals, I use the 16' Bourdon and 8' Principal in the pedal. In my church instrument the Bourdon (actually a 12 note extension of the Gedeckt, except it is wood as opposed to the rest of the rank, which is metal) is my only 16' register for the pedal, besides the mitred reed rank extension in the box.

How fortunate you are to have the Diapason at 16' ... that would be a nice addition for my church that would really help the bottom end. The Diapason seems to have lots more projection into a room, where the Bourdon rather sits somewhat dormant, but does render more bass "feel" than the open metal pipe of the same length.

Before I traded out the Tibia in that organ, I used it at 4' pitch as a solo stop against the Melodia and Salicional. During practice sessions when I was alone in that church, I would throw on the theatrical trem, pull the Tibias and such and just romp away on the beast - it was great fun. That organ also had Second Touch on one of the manuals, with its own stop rail section ... ahh, to reminisce about the old days of yore.

The church replaced that beast with an Allen digital in 1972 - soon afterwards a group of parishioners exclaimed "when are we going to get rid of this new contraption and get something more practical, like a <shrug> Hammond?" Music aficionados, no doubt :lol:
 

AllanP

New member
The 16' octave of the diapason is really a metal diaphone which when combined with an 8' Diapason makes an acceptable pedal. Adding the 16' Bourdon gives more body to the tone. The Diaphone looks like a mitered 16' reed but uses beaters rather than metal reeds which gives a more mellow sound. The 8' Diapason seems to help ear confirm that it is a Diapason sound. Conversely, adding an 8' Trumpet makes the ear think more of a 16' reed sound.

My teacher almost invariably uses the 16' Bourdon with either the 8" Flute or the 8" Diapason. She does not normally use the diaphone, I don't know why.

Too bad the church replaced a fun pipe organ with a very early digital. It sounds like it was quite a versatile instrument.
 

Krummhorn

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
Too bad the church replaced a fun pipe organ with a very early digital. It sounds like it was quite a versatile instrument.

On the contrary - it was a piece of ... erm ... uhh ... well ... uhh ... ok ... :eek: ... junk. Fun - Yes ... ciphers galore, usually during the sermon once a month when I wasn't even seated at the console, and of course always the loudest stop ... it had the old type electro-pnuematic relays, too ... always problematic. The grille cloth in front of the shades was Burlap ... dusty burlap, at that.

Originally, it was installed in the Yost Theatre in Santa Ana (CA) and was comprised of 13 ranks, along with some traps - The church got the original console, 5 ranks and the Xylophone, the latter of which was never hooked up on the re-installation. I never found out what happened to the other 8 ranks.

Hi AllanP,
Here's a *Primer On Organ Registration* by Gordon Nevin Balch you might be interested in:
http://ia340917.us.archive.org/2/items/primeroforganreg00neviuoft/primeroforganreg00neviuoft.pdf

Cheers,
CD :tiphat::tiphat::tiphat::tiphat:

Corno Dolce,

Interesting book ... still applicable today as it was in 1919 - some great things never change, and that's swell by me.
 
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Corno Dolce

Admiral Honkenwheezenpooferspieler
Well Master Krummhorn---

I just had to pipe-up.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
 

Soubasse

New member
Oh dear,

The sooner we put a stop to puns like that, the better.


My second teacher was from Vienna, a student of Heiller and Marie-Claire Alain among other luminaries. I remember about the 3rd or 4th lesson after I'd started with her, I was practicing before she arrived and when she came in, one of the first things she said to me was "Why are you using two 8' stops together?!" She seemed very much to favour the clear, almost transparent tones. Over the years, I've tended to go with what sounds workable for the particular piece of music. Personally, I've often felt that drawing a pleasant 8' Flute with an 8' Principal can have the effect of "softening" an otherwise harsh Principal (depending on the voicing of course). Another factor was the number of instruments I practiced on which had rather weak lungs, and there were some stops that you just literally could not use together because the amount of wind that they seem to require would start draining the bellows and the pitch would drop. :eek:
 
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