True believers are murderers, according to some

[Contratrombone64]

Considering the pope is in Sydney at present I did some research on the Catholic church and it's views on other religions, not very endearing ...

Indigenous American beliefs

While visiting Brazil in May 2007, "the pope sparked controversy by saying that native populations had been 'silently longing' for the Christian faith brought to South America by colonizers."[84] The Pope continued, stating that "the proclamation of Jesus and of his Gospel did not at any point involve an alienation of the pre-Columbus cultures, nor was it the imposition of a foreign culture."[84] President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela demanded an apology, and an indigenous organization in Ecuador issued a response which stated that "representatives of the Catholic Church of those times, with honorable exceptions, were accomplices, deceivers and beneficiaries of one of the most horrific genocides of all humanity."[84] Later, the pope, speaking Italian, said at a weekly audience that it was "not possible to forget the suffering and the injustices inflicted by colonizers against the indigenous population, whose fundamental human rights were often trampled."[85]

[raymondo30837]

Hi M8, Not enlightening, but obvious. This is what you can expect. However. All religion is man made and we all know how corrupt man is. Just a thought(mine) Regards Raymond

[methodistgirl]

The Catholic church used to be vicious years ago. I'm not catholic
myself. This methodistgirl is protestant. The Methodist church is different.
There is one protestant church that used to be rough and that's the Baptist
or there wouldn't have been slavery.
judy tooley

[JHC]

Religion has been good and bad for different reasons and, different people, but perhaps it has nearly run its course as science is gradually putting forward theories that seem (at least to many) to make more sense.
I do think that the intelligent design people are on the back foot they just don't realise it.

[Andrew Roussak]

Religion has been good and bad for different reasons and, different people, but perhaps it has nearly run its course as science is gradually putting forward theories that seem (at least to many) to make more sense.
I do think that the intelligent design people are on the back foot they just don't realise it.

I am so sorry you have just stumbled on such an absolutely unintillegent person as myself.

Concerning the history of colonisation of South America - I don't excuse the methods of Conquistadors. Btw - any moral estimations based on a moral of XXth C are simply unappliable to the events happened in the XVI C. People have burned the witches not because they were more cruel, or more blood-thirsty than they are today. They simply REALLY believed that the witches brought mischief and were the sources of evil. If we still believed it now, we would obviously do the same.

As for the remarks of mr. Hugo Chavez goes, I am not sure if it were somewhat better should aztecs and incs colonise Europe , especially concerning their nice cult of human sacrifices.

[Corno Dolce]

As much as I love science and use it as a tool to discover and analyse Astronomical phenomena I must firmly denounce science as a belief system - Atheist Scientism Is Rational Satanism!!!

[JHC]

I am so sorry you have just stumbled on such an absolutely unintillegent person as myself..

I do not understand you comment to my quoted post, could you enlighten?

As much as I love science and use it as a tool to discover and analyse Astronomical phenomena I must firmly denounce science as a belief system - Atheist Scientism Is Rational Satanism!!!

Science has never been a belief system, any sort of theism is simplistic and can be dangerous, Science is not infallible but it attempts to provide proof through observation.

[Corno Dolce]

Sad to say but science can very much be a belief system - case closed!

[Andrew Roussak]

Dear J.H.C. - I see now you are a new member on MIMF, so you simply can't be aware that the discussion on the same topic had already taken place here.

Please take a look , if interested -

http://www.magle.dk/music-forums/420...sial-book.html

It was a pretty long one, leading - as almost always in such cases - to nothing, I guess none of the sides had changed its opinion as the topic was closed....

Science has never been a belief system,...

...and , for what it's worth - have you ever heard of scientology?

any sort of theism is simplistic and can be dangerous,

...if you are serious about that and if you mean that an atheistic world view is not simplistic and can not be dangerous - please think USSR and maoistic China.

Regards,
Andrew

[Corno Dolce]

Hallo Andrew,

You latest post on this thread was spot on!!! Herzlichen dank mein bruder

Tschüß,

CD

[JHC]

Sad to say but science can very much be a belief system - case closed!

Such as ?? Sorry you want the case closed, there’s an open mind

...and , for what it's worth - have you ever heard of scientology?

Yes, The Church?? If so are you saying that scientology is science?? How do you come to that conclusion?

...if you are serious about that and if you mean that an atheistic world view is not simplistic and can not be dangerous - please think USSR and maoistic China.

No I mean that:
"any sort of theism is simplistic and can be dangerous,"

I won,t slam the door

[Corno Dolce]

Hi J.H.C.

I can always entertain differing opinions and always will. That doesn't mean to say that I agree with the opinions but I can be empathetic towards the person who uttered the opinion without ever being condescending towards that person.

I will encourage you to not be so quick to the draw by sarcastically saying that I have an *open mind*. I find that quite unbecoming in a forum with the caliber this one has.

Cheers,

Corno Dolce

[Andrew Roussak]

To J.H.S-

ok, man, let us clear it up, if you want.

You are saying -

Science has never been a belief system,...

So, the scientology is a pseudo-religion based on the scientific ( well, rather on a pseudo-scientific ) knowledge. Right? I think so. You have even named it the Church yourself. This is an example - a bit simplified maybe, but it was not me who had brought out that crazy sect - of how THE SCIENCE may become A BELIEF SYSTEM. And a pretty ugly one, may I add, due to its totalitarian essence. Okay?


If you meant anything different , or if I misunderstood you, let us simply regard this as a battle of words and close the subject . Scientology itself is not worth for me another two minutes needed to discuss it.

Regards, take it easy
Andrew

[Andrew Roussak]

Hi J.H.S,

to your another quote

No I mean that:
"any sort of theism is simplistic and can be dangerous,"

good, I don't know exactly what do you mean or meant by that. The history of a mankind concentrated in one sentence - mmmmmmmm...Is it all really that simple?
As far as I know, the world view can be only theistic or atheistic, right? No idea about any third opportunity. So, I have simply supposed you are saying that if theism, and any sort of it, is simplistic and can be dangerous, then the atheistic world view does somewhat better. All examples of atheistic world view and the ideology based on it - known to me - are pretty close tied to communistic totalitarian regimes . I can name no other examples , seriously. Or let me know if you know any.

[JHC]

Corno Dolce
When anyone says, Quote “case closed!” this normally indicates that as far as they are concerned they have said and heard all they are prepared to on that particular subject. Hence my comment indicating that you did not have an open mind. This was meant to be humorous I am sorry if it caused offence.

Andrew Roussak
My statement “Science has never been a belief system,.”

Your reply “...and , for what it's worth - have you ever heard of scientology?”

The way this was worded indicates that you are classing Scientology as science, I now assume that this is not what you intended to infer. OK that clears that up.
Regarding your post #14,
Theists and Atheists believe they are right and the other wrong this only leads to trouble as we have seen repeatedly in the past, I realise that one relies on faith whereas the other relies on a lack of proof of the other. I have been both in my lifetime but eventually realised that either one could be right or wrong, so, there is a third way and if I am right this has acquired the label “Free Thinkers” I do not like the name but it will have to do.
IMHO if we can get away from God/Religion and instead think of the Cosmos as either created or just plain happening, then we are starting to mature.
[I am avoiding cosmology terminology] I am not very good at long words.