prokofiev--best melodist of 20th century?

[Kromme]

Le Sacre
Firebird
Petrushka
Symphony of Psalms
Symphony In 3 Movements

[Contratrombone64]

ROFL!

My partner just pointed out something; he says there are lyrics to the Sacre's opening bassoon solo. The bassoon sings these words to it; try it- "I'm not an English horn, this is too high for me, I'm not an English horn..." Poor bassoon.

I love that opening "birdsong" evocation of the Rite, Miss Rojo - it's one of my all time favourite pieces, I think I've got about 12 recordings of Le Sacre, and each one I adore for different reasons (I don't own Karajan's, if he ever recorded it).

[rojo]

Me too, Contra. Fab stuff.

Geez, is the joke I posted so old that everyone already knows it? Oh well, it bears repeating; it's cute.

I listened to Prokofiev's Toccata today, Martha Argerich playing. Melody was not his only specialty. 'Twas a treat.

[some guy]

I listened to Prokofiev's Toccata today, Martha Argerich playing. Melody was not his only specialty. 'Twas a treat.

Hahaha! And I, for my part, remember reading about Toccata long before I ever heard it. All about the repetition. The rhythmic, propulsive drive.

Then I heard it.

Melodies. All the way through, melodies. The opening one (where there are all those D's lined up in a row) being the most memorable. Indeed, when I first read this post, what popped into my head was the tune. dum Dum Dum Dum Dum Dee Dee Dee Deedle Dum. (I love when these discussion get all technical, don't you?)

It is a treat. Melody was not his only specialty. If it were, he would not be considered a great composer. Rhythm, harmony, timbre, development, polytonality, unexpected twists and turns, and an inexhaustible gift for putting everything together into pieces that continually surprise and delight.

There's glory for you!

[Contratrombone64]

In the hands of Martha Argerich, even twinkle twinkle little star would be thrilling.

[rojo]

Hahaha! And I, for my part, remember reading about Toccata long before I ever heard it. All about the repetition. The rhythmic, propulsive drive.

Then I heard it.

Melodies. All the way through, melodies. The opening one (where there are all those D's lined up in a row) being the most memorable. Indeed, when I first read this post, what popped into my head was the tune. dum Dum Dum Dum Dum Dee Dee Dee Deedle Dum. (I love when these discussion get all technical, don't you?)

It is a treat. Melody was not his only specialty. If it were, he would not be considered a great composer. Rhythm, harmony, timbre, development, polytonality, unexpected twists and turns, and an inexhaustible gift for putting everything together into pieces that continually surprise and delight.

There's glory for you!

Yes, we need more tech talk around here. Personally, I can also hear the opening as Bee Boo Bee Boo Bee Boo... with the low D sounding against every 2nd high D.

Well, perhaps the melody is what's most memorable for you, but for me it's that rhythmic, propulsive drive that I appreciate most in this piece. I'm a big fan of rhythmic, propulsive drive. I guess peeps are in no way required to enjoy the same things in every piece, and I was certainly not meaning that there is an absence of melody in this piece. No law against repeated notes in a melody.

[some guy]

No. You're wrong!!

Tee hee. But seriously, I was thinking how to describe that offbeat thing that makes Toccata really special, but didn't come up with anything.

So for all you playing at home, just align the deedums and the beeboos and you'll have it!

Or just buy yourself a copy of the piece. Which reminds me. I don't have Argerich's version. She may emphasize different elements from Eteri Andjaparidze. I should probably get hers anyway.

[rojo]

Again? Geez.

There surely is a term for that offbeat thing, and I'll probably think of it shortly after I've logged off. Probably while I'm out doing errands, and then I'll promptly forget about it.

One probably can't have too many Toccatas.

I've just been listening to another Prokofiev (there's no cool way to abbreviate his name, is there) work; Scythian Suite. So very remindful of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring. I haven't looked up what the exact relationship there might be between the two, and I don't recall studying S.S. at school, (R. of S. yes,) but so many things in common-

Rite of Spring: written 1912-13
Scythian Suite: written 1915

both:

deal with Pagan rituals, sacrifice
employ a huge orchestra
have a 'barbaric' nature
written for ballet (originally, in the case of S.S.)
negatively received
presented to Diaghilev (he rejected S.S., so Prokofiev made it into a suite.)

How about them apples? Or are they just apples and oranges. *scratches head*

[Kromme]

In the hands of Martha Argerich, even twinkle twinkle little star would be thrilling.

So true.

[some guy]

Diaghilev wanted another success* like Le Sacre and on the strength of Prokofiev's 2nd piano concerto, I guess he though Serge could be the one to supply it. (Prokofiev wanted to do an opera on The Gambler.) Anyway, they agreed on Ala et Lolly, only Diaghilev didn't like the music when he saw it (too much like the Stravinsky to cause its own scandal) so axed the project. Prokofiev's Buffoon was his first Diaghilev ballet.

There's some uncertainty about when Prokofiev first saw Le Sacre, even though he said late in his life that he was consciously trying to emulate it in Ala et Lolly. Well, at least he liked his own music well enough to make the Scythian Suite out of the ballet. Good thing. It's a stunner for sure.

Next week, "Love for Three Oranges, should it be performed in French or in Russian?"

*irony

[rojo]

Well, that explains that then.

Thanks some guy.

I'm a bit foggy on Love for Three Oranges because I haven't listened to it in a long time, so I don't know how to answer your question; I'll have to go check it out. I know it's not apples though.

[Contratrombone64]

rojo - Opera Australia's recorded Love for Three Oranges in English, a wonderful production, recorded live at the Opera House over a few performances, then obviously spliced together. Nevertheless, a terrific performance as opera needs to be: live.

[escher]

Prokofiev is a composer that i know only superficially, so i'd like to have suggestions because i'm really interested by the fact that a lot of people think of his as one of the greatest melodist of the century. I've listened only a couple of symphonies (5 and 6) and few other works, so any suggestion is welcome, above all thinking that now i'm particularly curious to discover the melodic aspect of his music.
Anyway, at this moment my favorite melodist of the century is Alec Wilder without a doubt.

[some guy]

My suggestion, listen to a lot of music. Keep doing it, over and over again.

Ignore all other suggestions.

(All of Prokofiev is fine. Do it!!)

[Alban Berg]

better than Scriabin? And this genious died in 1915!!!!!!!! He's the greatest.

Martin