Organ Orgy...

[Corno Dolce]

Here's the classic performance on organ that got me started with organ transcriptions of famous orchestral works. Maestro Newman is electrifying with his performance:

+ YouTube Video

Hearing the State Trumpet in the pedal bring out the melody sends me........

[Mush]

I have that album. It is stored right next to another gem, Elissaser playing Widors #5 at the Hammond Museum.

[Contratrombone64]

bloody YouTube

[dll927]

I used to have that Elsasser LP, too. I understand that organ has fallen into something of disrepair. Also, I heard at a concert at First Congregational in L.A. that Elsasser had been the organist there before Lloyd Holzgraf took over. Wasn't Elsasser killed in a plane crash or some such thing?

If this is the same Newman I'm thinking of, my impression is that he likes ambulance-chasing tempos. I once heard a recording of him doing the Franck B minor Chorale in what amounted to about double time. Left me rather unimpressed.

Also, why is so little heard about the Longwood Gardens organ in PA?

[Corno Dolce]

Aloha dll927,

Yes, Newman has been known to use *ambulance-chasing tempi* - gosh, how I loathe, detest, and despise such practice - especially with JSBach's organ music. A set of old Nonesuch LP's wherein he recorded some of Bach's oeuvre has him flying through the Prelude & Fugue in E-minor aka the *Wedge* as if he was being chased by a demon. Here is a more sensical *reading* of the *Wedge*:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouJ3O2T4ZI0&fmt=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idhHq1mn1XA&fmt=18


In re to the Longwood Gardens; Yes, sadly there is so little exposure to such a great instrument. It is quite an experience to hear it live.

Cheerio,

CD

[Krummhorn]

bloody YouTube

Check out CD's original post - I modified it to include the YT within the posting.

I might add that The Great Organ at this cathedral has been silent for a few years ... suffered from smoke damage from a fire in 2001.
A US firm is restoring this instrument and it is slated to be again playing next month (Nov 2008). Eric Johnson (Quimby Pipe Organs) is the lead voicer on this project - Eric has been the caretaker for the Moller pipe organ at my church for the past several years.

[Contratrombone64]

Now that's from my LEAST favourite organist. He simply plays everything just too damned fast, not my cup of tea at all but thanks, Corno, it's a wonderful instrument

[Aldebaran]

I hate to begin on such a negative note, but it's amusing, in a sour sort of way, to read a bunch of nonentities pillorying a noted musician. When one of you has attained even a tithe of Anthony Newman's eminence, then by all means, "meow" away. Until then, however, please maintain some perspective.

[Krummhorn]

Hi Aldebaran,

Welcome to the forum.

I'm a bit perplexed by your statement of us not being able to be critical of Anthony Newman's tempos. Just because someone has achieved notoriety does not make them the absolute authority on tempos.

Each of us, and some of us ARE professional organists, perhaps without the notoriety of Anthony Newman, have our own feelings about interpretation of an organ work from what we have learned from our tutors and from other professional musicians.

None of us are saying Anthony Newman is wrong for the fast tempo ... we are saying it is not to our liking and we would play it slower.


I would dare to say that if you took that same piece and had ten notable and famous organists play it, you would have 10 different tempos and interpretations.

My 10 DKK's worth, anyway.

[Corno Dolce]

Aloha Aldebaran,

Welcome Aboard! Back in the early '70's Anthony Newman recorded some Bach works for the VoxBox label at some podunk college in Massachusetts - methinks Wooster School. Anyway, one of the works was Prelude & Fugue in E-minor aka the *Wedge*. He flew through that piece as if a Saturn Rocket Booster was strapped onto his back.

I have played that piece a number of times myself but 25% slower. Too much of the musical line imho, is lost when the piece is played so fast.

My $0.03 cents worth,

Corno Dolce

[rovikered]

I've only just discovered this thread and heard Andrew Newman's performance of 'The Ride of the Valkyries'. It is truly an exciting ride, probably a bit faster than some virtuosos play it but all the more appropriate for that.
I have a historical recording of it played by George Thalben-Ball on the organ of London's Crystal Palace. Heard 'in the flesh' that performance at the time must have been equally exciting. Thalben-Ball may have played it at a slightly slower tempo, but not much.
Best wishes.
rk

[Robert Newman]

An extraordinary performance by Newman there ! Thanks for posting it C.D. It has some really interesting features for sure.

RN

[wljmrbill]

To me many conert as well as church organist play tempos to fast for many peices of music. I feel it may be due to the electronic age and the responce time between key touch and sound production. Some tempos I have heard would be very difficuilt with a true tracker system I dare say. When I play a piece I try and remember what was involved with the composition being composed...if I can find out...the old "5" W's. hence we have music interrpretation.....LOL

[dll927]

I still maintain that Franck, Widor, et. al., didn't play their Cavaille Colls as fast as some of these people play nowdays. And I think you are probably right about the influence of electric connections.

Given a large church or cathedral with a long reverberation time, it would seem that fast tempi would make the music sound like a cacaphony of noise and it would be difficult to hear the 'voices' in works such as Bach's.

I've read that Widor himself thought many organists played his famous Toccata too fast.

Not long ago there was a 'you-tube' or some such of Marcel Dupre playing Franck's "Fantaisie in A", and some of the comment was that it was very slow. It was, but one wonders if Franck would have thought so. Since recordings of those people don't exist, we don't have any way of knowing. There are plenty of recordings of Dupre, and he didn't seem to be any fan of fast tempi.

Then there are those, such as a certain Fox, whose attitude was that what the composers did wasn't important. The only important thing was how HE played it.

BTW, Aldebaran, I find it rather presumptuous of you to call people you don't even know "nonentities".

[acc]

I still maintain that Franck, Widor, et. al., didn't play their Cavaille Colls as fast as some of these people play nowdays.

That's a pretty widespread belief, but there is some evidence pointing in a different direction.

It is true that Widor is on record complaining about fast tempi. Except that he probably forgot that he himself played faster in his youth: just compare the evolution of metronome markings between successive editions. The Toccata was marked quarter=118 in earlier editions, to end up at quarter=100 in the last edition (his own recording clocking at about quarter=94). In the first part of the 5th symphony, things are even more extreme: in the last edition, the scherzando starting at bar 181 is marked quarter=96, and the tempo stays there until the end, whereas in earlier editions, Widor also marks quarter=96 at the same spot, but then increases the tempo in several steps, until the animato section where it reaches a staggering quarter=144!

As for Franck, there exists a sheet in his own handwriting giving the following tempi for the Six Pièces, which most people today would find surprisingly fast.

op 16
poco lento, quarter=80
allegretto, quarter=104
quasi lento, quarter=80
adagio, eighth=69

op 17
andantino, quarter=112
allegro non troppo, half=104
andante, quarter=72
allegro, quarter=126
andante, quarter=72
allegro non troppo, half=104
andante, quarter=72

op 18
cantabile, dotted quarter=72
lento, quarter=60
allegro non troppo, quarter=112
andantino, dotted quarter=72

op 19
andantino, quarter=76
quasi allegretto, quarter=126
andantino, quarter=76

op 20
quarter=62

op 21
half=100