Cleaning an Organ

[hackjo]

Hi Krummhorn,

I've attached a very rough layout of the organ in relation to the rest of the building.

Basically, the Swell box open side faces the Chancel. The side of the box is directly behind the South aisle case, so there is only a small area for the Swell to speak into the main body of the church.

The Great is unenclosed, and its pipework is positioned in front of the Swell, behind the Chancel case. So again, its main projection is out into the chancel. The Pedal is mounted against three walls of the organ chamber.

As you can see from the earlier photos, the cases are slotted into large arches. To the left of the South aisle case photo, there is a large section of wall then the start of the arcade of arches that separate the main body of the church. The Chancel has a large arch at its entrance too. As a result, the majority of the Great pipework is behind this wall so when looking at the South aisle case head-on, the Great will be largely hidden behind this wall.

I hope that makes some sense!

John

[Corno Dolce]

I'll suggest something *heretical* - Hang an omnidirectional microphone in the middle of the chancel area to pick-up the sound and then slightly boost the signal through an amp connected some speakers properly positioned in the nave.

[Analogicus]

Corno Dolce’s suggestion should be taken very seriously. While not an ideal answer, at least it is achievable for relatively little cost, and it can certainly raise the level of organ sound needed to lead congregational singing.
In retirement I attend the church I grew up in, and where I built the first of five church analogue electronic organs I made in Sydney in the 1980’s. The loudspeakers are hidden in the original pipe organ chamber, which also is to the side of the chancel, and because of the arch the sound has difficulty getting into the nave properly (as was the case with the original pipe organ). By accident, the microphone at the prayer desk picks up the organ sound significantly, and relays it to the church public address system, which tends to be used at a higher level than I find comfortable. But at least it gets the level of the organ sound up usefully. The one disadvantage is that it is a mono system, which means that the spread of sound I built into the organ using a number of channels is not conveyed.
Analogicus

[Contratrombone64]

Analogicus ... how fascinating. Where in Sydney can these digital masterpieces be seen, prithee?

thanks CT64

[Analogicus]

CT64,
I have sent you an email.
They are not digital - they are analogue. Whether or not they are masterpieces is up to each person's ears - although one accomplished Sydney organist did refer to my Opus 7 as my "masterpiece". The minister at the church receiving Opus 1 used a different word: "miracle"!
All I will say is that they were good for their time. Technology has moved on, and I think that these days the virtual organ would be my choice.

Analogicus

[Corno Dolce]

Aloha Analogicus,

May I humbly inquire about the type of amplification you used on your instruments? Were they tube amps?

Humbly,

CD

[peterharris449]

another alternative would be to ensure the ceiling and walls of the organ chamber are reflective

[Analogicus]

Corno Dolce,
The organs were all solid state, with the audio outputs going to a number of amplifiers/loudspeakers to give a spread of sound, not only for different departments, but also when playing on, say, a single "rank".
Analogicus

[Corno Dolce]

Aloha Analogicus,

Fascinating stuff you worked with. I may be wading into very murky waters here but since you have more knowledge in electrical engineering for organs than I have maybe you could comment on the use of tube amplification for digitally processed signals?

Humbly,

CD

[AllanP]

Whether the organ is analogue or digital makes no difference in whether a tube amplifier or transistor amplifier is used. The very high end audiophiles believe that tube amplifiers are better than solid state. As an Electrical Engineer, a properly designed solid state amplifier is probably more linear. It will be better for an organ due to the higher power and lack of an output transformer which will help on the pedal bass.

Use either type of amplifier that you have, keep the volume down and everything will probably be ok. Any problem tends to be distortion in the bass and intermodulation distortion which is greater at higher sound levels. The speakers used being mechanical devices have a greater effect on the sound than the amplifier which being electronic can be made nearly perfect.

Pipe organs do not have the intermodulation distortion due to multiple sounds coming from one speaker since each pipe is its own speaker. I heard a new Allen in a reverberant church which has 50 channels, with many speakers pointed in every direction everywhere in the chancel. The organ sounded pretty good almost as good as my Wurlitzer (no bias here). It was a 5 manual highest end theatre organ which did a great job on classical music and a good job as a theatre organ. It probably cost about 10 times what my pipe organ plus installation cost so it should sound good.

[Corno Dolce]

Aloha AllanP,

Thanx for weighing in - I truly appreciate someone with excellent knowledge freely sharing their thoughts.

Humbly,

CD

[Analogicus]

Corno Dulce,
As an engineer, I have to say I am sceptical about the preference some have for tube amplifiers. A properly-designed solid state amplifier being used within its design limits will have very little distortion. The only situation I can imagine where a tube amplifer may do better over a solid state one, is where each is being over-driven into distortion. But why would you want to do that?
Analogicus

[Corno Dolce]

Aloha Analogicus,

Thanx for your thoughts. I currently don't own a tube amplifier. I used to although. I did notice a difference when I played organ CD's on my former system which had a tube amplifier. A nice warm sound is what it was imho.

Anyway, I only have a couple of run-of-the-mill Linn amps driving magneplanar electrostats and some Carver Sunfire Subwoofers - nothing fancy mind you.

Cheerio,

CD

[Contratrombone64]

CT64,
I have sent you an email.
They are not digital - they are analogue. Whether or not they are masterpieces is up to each person's ears - although one accomplished Sydney organist did refer to my Opus 7 as my "masterpiece". The minister at the church receiving Opus 1 used a different word: "miracle"!
All I will say is that they were good for their time. Technology has moved on, and I think that these days the virtual organ would be my choice.

Analogicus

Sorry -my email has changed and the one I had listed is now dead, if you look at my profile you'll see the correct email address.

[Analogicus]

CT64,
I have sent another email.
Let me know here if you don't receive it.
Analogicus