Music by Little Known Classical Composers

[Corno Dolce]

Aloha Mr. Newman,

WOW!!! Thanx for sharing the fascinating thoughts you have on the subject at hand. Yes, it wouldn't surprise me at all that there has been a concerted effort to suppress Bach's pedagogical works by Catholic Europe. As you well know, JSBach is the *Fifth Evangelist*.

Not only was he a master of his craft, but he also had such an excellent and very deep Theology of the Church. His copy of Luther's Bible was chock full of his personal annotations in the margins. He really took great care in thoroughgoing study of Holy Scripture. He saw music as the handmaiden of the Word.

JSBach's profound Faith was in many cases greater than the local parish priest - something which probably irked the priests, Church Councils, and maybe was annotated in the journals of the Royal families that JSBach had worked for. JSBach knew that the power of the Word combined with excellent music, was a force so profound and earth-shattering.

As a sidebar note, Masaaki Suzuki of the Bach Collegium of Japan tirelessly works in spreading the news of JSBach in the highly secular Japan. He has earned so much respect by the Japanese people. Who'da thunk that a musician/composer/pedagogue from Thuringerwald in Germany would have such a global reach???!!!

Now, back to the topic of this thread: Wilhelm Stenhammar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXyERS4C5tY&fmt=18

Cheerio,

CD

Ps: Pope B16 is known to be a pianist of no mean skill and he has promulgated the music of Bach and Mozart - So, I guess the RCChurch will get *religion* yet...Yes, and after all the chaos post Vatican II where the Church pitched the baby out with the bathwater...........

[Robert Newman]

9/12

Thomas Tallis

Discovering Music. Ralph Vaughan Williams "Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis." From broadcast of BBC Radio 3.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CP8YNx...eature=related

[Robert Newman]

Aloha Mr. Newman,

WOW!!! Thanx for sharing the fascinating thoughts you have on the subject at hand. Yes, it wouldn't surprise me at all that there has been a concerted effort to suppress Bach's pedagogical works by Catholic Europe. As you well know, JSBach is the *Fifth Evangelist*.

Not only was he a master of his craft, but he also had such an excellent and very deep Theology of the Church. His copy of Luther's Bible was chock full of his personal annotations in the margins. He really took great care in thoroughgoing study of Holy Scripture. He saw music as the handmaiden of the Word.

JSBach's profound Faith was in many cases greater than the local parish priest - something which probably irked the priests, Church Councils, and maybe was annotated in the journals of the Royal families that JSBach had worked for. JSBach knew that the power of the Word combined with excellent music, was a force so profound and earth-shattering.

As a sidebar note, Masaaki Suzuki of the Bach Collegium of Japan tirelessly works in spreading the news of JSBach in the highly secular Japan. He has earned so much respect by the Japanese people. Who'da thunk that a musician/composer/pedagogue from Thuringerwald in Germany would have such a global reach???!!!

Now, back to the topic of this thread: Wilhelm Stenhammar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXyERS4C5tY&fmt=18

Cheerio,

CD

Ps: Pope B16 is known to be a pianist of no mean skill and he has promulgated the music of Bach and Mozart - So, I guess the RCChurch will get *religion* yet...Yes, and after all the chaos post Vatican II where the Church pitched the baby out with the bathwater...........

Hi there C.D.,

There is of course a fundamental and huge difference between what is man-made in matters of religion and what is not man-made. This continues till today. It's as true of Protestant churches as it is of Rome or, say, the Orthodox churches. For they are the same. To me, the Reformation was real, even inevitable and it successfully re-emphasised the truth to men and women of faith that each person, invididually, is and always was ultimately responsible for their own personal faith in Christ. This responsibility is not the job of any 'state church' or of any priest or church pastor. Nor does it depend on the obvious and often shameful marriage between 'church and state' or any humanly enforceable union between churches or ecumenical bodies. Since the individual is ultimately answerable to Christ, the revealed word, and not to any church. In my view Luther chose Christ rather than the church. So did many others. And he was right. So have men and women in all ages. But that does not make the Lutheran church the truth either.

What does history teach ? I think it teaches what is good, just, tolerant and right. So loudly, simply and clearly even from our own experience that nobody who wants to know these things can be ignorant of them.

Honestly, I think the Christian today has little time for Rome or what Rome does. The same is true of all church denominations (of which Rome was/is the largest and the leader). And I number several Roman Catholics amongst my friends.

As for music, nobody can doubt Christianity (and no other system of belief) has been accompanied in all ages by some of the greatest music ever heard by man.

Best wishes

Robert

[some guy]

Robert, you are probably aware that "little known" will eventually (as in right now, in this post!) raise the question, "little known to whom?"

So I'm asking, to whom are Sullivan, Scarlatti, Cimarosa, Berwald, Stenhammer, and Tallis "little known"?

Otherwise, I'd suppose that most music of the past hundred years or so is little known to most people who call themselves classical listeners.

If anyone here, for instance, knows the music of any of these very prominent composers, I would be very surprised and vastly pleased:

Ashley
Bruemmer
Childs
Dumizio
eRikm
Ferrari
Gobeil
Huber
Karkowski
Lachenmann
Mumma
Normandeau
Ostertag
Paik
Rowe
Smalley
Tone
Uitti
Yoshihide
Zanesi

[Corno Dolce]

Aloha some guy,

I have heard quite a few works of Ferrari, Huber, and Ostertag.

Cheerio,

CD

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aloha Mr. Newman,

I heartily concur with you. We will be judged individually as humans and corporately as a group. The Lutheran Church does not have the *definitive answer* because it is an organization made up of fallible human beings. Yes, Luther chose Christ - not the organization. The greatest composers that ever lived were Christians.

The union of Church and State came about because of, as you know, the Monarch was the Protector of the Church. In a Parliamentary Democracy or a Constitutional Federation of States the notion of a union between Church and State is an anomaly.

Yes, work with fear and trembling on your own Salvation - Yet, look at who is related to Jesus - some of the most wretched and dysfunctional people and families this side of the mafiosi - Yet God chose those people and did a new thing - what we as humans can't do to change or help people, God can. His ministry is the ministry of possibilities.

Cheerio,

CD

[Art Rock]

Robert, you are probably aware that "little known" will eventually (as in right now, in this post!) raise the question, "little known to whom?"

So I'm asking, to whom are Sullivan, Scarlatti, Cimarosa, Berwald, Stenhammer, and Tallis "little known"?

Otherwise, I'd suppose that most music of the past hundred years or so is little known to most people who call themselves classical listeners.

If anyone here, for instance, knows the music of any of these very prominent composers, I would be very surprised and vastly pleased:

Ashley
Bruemmer
Childs
Dumizio
eRikm
Ferrari
Gobeil
Huber
Karkowski
Lachenmann
Mumma
Normandeau
Ostertag
Paik
Rowe
Smalley
Tone
Uitti
Yoshihide
Zanesi

Lachenmann and Ostertag are in my collection. And although I had heard of all composers posted so far in this thread by Robert Newman, and many are in my collection, I think that the ones selected still are mostly interesting choices and can help people look beyond the established grandmasters.

[some guy]

Aloha some guy,

I have heard quite a few works of Ferrari, Huber, and Ostertag.

Cheerio,

CD

That's Luc Ferrari, Klaus Huber, and Bob Ostertag. I should have specified, as there's Benedetto Ferrari, and Wolf-Ferrari, and Hans Huber, and Martin Ostertag. Sorry for the (possible?) misunderstanding.

(It was your "quite a few" that tipped me off to what I'd thoughtlessly done. No one has heard more than a few pieces by Klaus Huber, except maybe Klaus and a few of his friends.)

One the other hand, if you HAVE heard quite a few works by Luc and Klaus and Bob, together, then "Woo Hoo!!"

Here's the list again, with all first names, just to be safe!!

Robert Ashley
Ludger Brümmer (I gave him his ü)
Barney Childs
Thomas Dimuzio (I had dsylexically mispelled this one, sheesh.)
eRikm (aka Erik M)
Luc Ferrari
Gilles Gobeil
Klaus Huber
Zbigniew Karkowski
Helmut Lachenmann
Gordon Mumma
Robert Normandeau
Bob Ostertag
Nam June Paik
Keith Rowe
Dennis Smalley
Yasunao Tone
Frances-Marie Uitti
Otomo Yoshihide
Christian Zanési (I gave him his é this time.)

[Robert Newman]

Thanks for these comments. I suppose commercialism means today that no composer can be well known unless he has a business manager and is prepared to sacrifice almost everything to become famous.

Of course most composers in the history of music were not 'well known'. But I note great composers care little about fame while others think it's the most important thing of all !

The solution is quite simple - if you ever become President or Prime Minister transfer the defence/military budgets of your nation on your first day at the office to the artists, orchestras and musicians of your country and retire from office on the same day. LOL !

Robert

[some guy]

Lachenmann and Ostertag are in my collection.

Good to hear it!

And although I had heard of all composers posted so far in this thread by Robert Newman, and many are in my collection, I think that the ones selected still are mostly interesting choices and can help people look beyond the established grandmasters.

No argument here. That is a noble and worthy task, to which I added some delightful suggestions of my own!

[Robert Newman]

HAPPY NEW YEAR 2009 !!!!

Yes, and thanks for the great suggestions here Someguy ! Before I forget, my good wishes to everyone on the forum for this coming New Year of 2009. Let's hope it's a good one. And here to celebrate its arrival from over the horizon is a little music by somebody very well known, J.S Bach. Played by the wonderfully gifted Romanian pianist Dinu Lipatti.

Johann Sebastian Bach
Partita No. 1 in B Flat for Solo Keyboard
BWV 825/6
Gigue
Soloist - Dinu Lipatti (1950)

http://www.mediafire.com/?mwz4mmn3iz2

(For those unable to get the above see) -

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=btUl75FwR24


Robert

[Corno Dolce]

Aloha some guy,

Of those whom I named and their oeuvre is the *quite a few works*.

Cheerio,

CD

[some guy]

Hey Corno, don't be coy now. Name 'em! Which pieces have you heard, even (if you have the time), what did you think of them?

[Tûrwethiel]

The solution is quite simple - if you ever become President or Prime Minister transfer the defence/military budgets of your nation on your first day at the office to the artists, orchestras and musicians of your country and retire from office on the same day. LOL !

Hear hear, Robert! And half the money that's spent on sport as well!

[Corno Dolce]

Aloha some guy,

So, I'm being coy now, eh?

Of Klaus Huber's oeuvre I am quite moved by his more recent works like:

Quod est Pax?

Die Seele muss vom Reittier steigen.

Lamentationes Sacrae et Profanae ad Responsoria Iesualdi.


Of Bob Ostertag's oeuvre:

Sooner or Later (1991) Quite difficult for me to listen to...


Of Luc Ferrari's oeuvre:

Comedia dell'amore 224



I don't very often listen to these discs but I can always surprise my circle of friends with them.

Cheers,

CD

[some guy]

Well, Corno, I'm not sure I'd translate five pieces as "quite a few," but there's no doubt that I'm very pleased that you know even these.

For tomorrow, or the next day, give "Getting A Head" a try. That's still my favorite Ostertag. And Ferrari? Well, everything. Try everything. (Not because it's all good, per se, but because he did so many different things.)

That Die Seele muss vom Reittier steigen is a fine piece (it's on my stereo as I type this). That must mean either you've heard it live (lucky!) or that you have the three disc Donaueschinger set it's on. That means you also have Julio Estrada's Hum and Helmut Oehring's ER.eine She (aus: 5ÜNF/Haare Opfer) and Chaya Czernowin's maim zarim, maim gnuvim and several other delightful things.