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Thread: We've had favourites threads, what about the hates?

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    Vice Admiral Virtuoso Dorsetmike's Avatar
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    We've had favourites threads, what about the hates?

    For me quite a few, (maybe it's just my age)

    Modern composers who can only write dull, tuneless, repetitive work, barely suitable for background noise in an elevator, like Einaudi, Glass and a few others, for Gorecki delete repetitive maybe but add discordant & atonal, as soon as I hear a radio presenter mention the Symphony of sorrowful songs I hit the off button or change channel; Arvo Paart an be added to the list as well. (Note I have not mentioned music as I don't consider it such)

    As a matter of interest has anybody else apart from Einaudi recorded any of his works, I don't recall having heard one announced before I switch off.

    Other instant switch offs include Cecilia Bartolli and similar divas that overdo the vibrato, Pavarotti and co, the 3 tenors, again over the top, give me Jussi Bjorling anyday. (and for a female vocalist Cleo Laine tops my list, although outside the classical genre)

    I have similar feelings about modern art too, in fact I think probably there is a connection between the artist who randomly spatters paint on the canvas and Gorecki spattering notes on a score. In both cases I suspect a con job by somebody in media with a warped sense of humour conning those who think they have to support the "in thing" into buying the record/print etc so as to be seen as "with it".

    I don't find it confined to the classical arts, jazz has also suffered, architecture has gone crazy, you can probably all think of other examples.

    Am I alone in these feelings or just a grumpy old fart?
    Cheers MIKE.

    How many roads must a man walk down ... ... before he admits he's lost?

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    Hi there Mike,

    Yes, I agree. Don't know if you've read it already but I recommend -

    'When the Music Stops - Managers, Maestros and the Corporate Murder of Classical Music' by Norman Lebrecht.

    An expose of the music industry.

    (I'd like to make a thread on this remarkable book. Much of it is along the lines of your own post. So, no, what you are saying is agreed by many, many people).

    Regards

    Robert

    http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=5&gl=uk

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    Captain of Water Music Art Rock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorsetmike View Post
    For me quite a few, (maybe it's just my age)

    Modern composers who can only write dull, tuneless, repetitive work, barely suitable for background noise in an elevator, like Einaudi, Glass and a few others, for Gorecki delete repetitive maybe but add discordant & atonal, as soon as I hear a radio presenter mention the Symphony of sorrowful songs I hit the off button or change channel; Arvo Paart an be added to the list as well. (Note I have not mentioned music as I don't consider it such)

    As a matter of interest has anybody else apart from Einaudi recorded any of his works, I don't recall having heard one announced before I switch off.

    Other instant switch offs include Cecilia Bartolli and similar divas that overdo the vibrato, Pavarotti and co, the 3 tenors, again over the top, give me Jussi Bjorling anyday. (and for a female vocalist Cleo Laine tops my list, although outside the classical genre)

    I have similar feelings about modern art too, in fact I think probably there is a connection between the artist who randomly spatters paint on the canvas and Gorecki spattering notes on a score. In both cases I suspect a con job by somebody in media with a warped sense of humour conning those who think they have to support the "in thing" into buying the record/print etc so as to be seen as "with it".

    I don't find it confined to the classical arts, jazz has also suffered, architecture has gone crazy, you can probably all think of other examples.

    Am I alone in these feelings or just a grumpy old fart?
    The latter.

    Seriously, there is a lot of excellent modern classical music, including some of the composers you hate. The same holds for modern art. It's all a matter of taste.

  4. #4
    Commodore con Forza
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    There's an obituary in this week's TIME magazine about the death of painter Andrew Wyeth. Among other things, it makes the point that he was a "problem" in art because he insisted on painting reality. Among the avant-garde types, his popularity was an even worse "problem".

    It seems the entire world of the arts got taken over somewhere along the line by those who want to push the boundaries or eliminate them entirely.

    I too despise atonal NOISE, which term I use because I refuse to call it music. It has been said that the olde-time, if that's a proper term, composers are popular because people can still understand their music.

    I've never been much of an opera fan, so I"ll leave that to those who are.

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    Captain of Water Music Art Rock's Avatar
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    The problem with art nowadays is that it is mainly conceptual art. I have christened those practicing this con-artists.
    http://artrock2006.blogspot.com/2009...s-at-work.html

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    Just curious for those who state that they do not like modern music and modern art - where do you draw the line? What is the latest you still find acceptable (avoiding anachronisms like Wyeth who jumps back several centuries in style).

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    Vice Admiral Virtuoso Dorsetmike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art Rock View Post
    The latter.

    Seriously, there is a lot of excellent modern classical music, including some of the composers you hate. The same holds for modern art. It's all a matter of taste.
    I did not say there was no good modern music, it's just that most of what gets pushed at us by the media is crap and as dll says people trying to push the boundaries; to my mind the boundaries are fairly well established between what constitutes music and what is noise so why try to push them beyond what the majority find acceptable.
    Cheers MIKE.

    How many roads must a man walk down ... ... before he admits he's lost?

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    Again your mileage may vary. Personally I like Part, and I find Gorecki's third one of the 10 best symphonies of all time (of course, you will not find that out if you hit the off button or change channel as soon as you hear a radio presenter mention the Symphony of sorrowful songs).

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    Commodore con Forza
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    I'd be interested in knowing why Wyeth was an anachronism. I forget the name, but there was one jerk who spread a canvas on the floor, then proceeded to splatter paint on it. There were those who gobbled it up as art!! Problem is, even I can do that, and my artistic talent is close to non-existent.

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    And to avoid making you think that I am only listening to modern music, my favourite symphonies would also include the likes of Schubert 8, Saint Saens 3, Bruckner 9, and Mahler 4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dll927 View Post
    I'd be interested in knowing why Wyeth was an anachronism. I forget the name, but there was one jerk who spread a canvas on the floor, then proceeded to splatter paint on it. There were those who gobbled it up as art!! Problem is, even I can do that, and my artistic talent is close to non-existent.
    Misconception, not uncommon though. Jackson Pollock (nicknamed Jack the Dripper). "Everyone" always fumes that he drips instead of using a brush or knife. It is the end result that counts. You may or may not like the end result (personal preference) but how he puts the paint on the canvas is neither here nor there.

    Wyeth paints as if the last three centuries of art development had not happened. That's his choice, but that does make him an anachronism in my book by definition.

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    Vice Admiral Virtuoso Dorsetmike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art Rock View Post
    Just curious for those who state that they do not like modern music and modern art - where do you draw the line? What is the latest you still find acceptable (avoiding anachronisms like Wyeth who jumps back several centuries in style).
    The line can not be drawn at any point in time as yet because there are still people working on both sides of the line, quite possibly there will still be well beyond our life times; I would say Stockhausen could possibly be considered the first to really try pushing the boundaries, but not all composers since then have followed. And why should Wyeth be considered an anachronism if his style was popular, even if it was not to the liking of those who like to imagine themselves to be the final arbiters of taste.
    Cheers MIKE.

    How many roads must a man walk down ... ... before he admits he's lost?

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    Vice Admiral Virtuoso Dorsetmike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art Rock View Post
    Again your mileage may vary. Personally I like Part, and I find Gorecki's third one of the 10 best symphonies of all time (of course, you will not find that out if you hit the off button or change channel as soon as you hear a radio presenter mention the Symphony of sorrowful songs).
    I did suffer it a few times to see if I could find what made it so raved about, I failed to see anything at all to warrant subjecting myself to such a cacophony, hence my switching off reaction, I actually feel pain at parts of it.
    Cheers MIKE.

    How many roads must a man walk down ... ... before he admits he's lost?

  14. #14
    Captain of Water Music Art Rock's Avatar
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    I said it before and I'll say it again: it's all a matter of taste. And that is personal. What you love I may hate and vice versa, that's life.

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    Captain of Water Music some guy's Avatar
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    The most obvious problem with "hates threads" is that you have many posts which betray only ignorance. You have a lot of blinkered opinions about music that posters do not know at all well, music that's been rejected out of hand, often before it's even been heard. And a few rebuttals that no one's going to pay any attention to, mostly because prejudices are irrational, i.e., not accessible by rational argument.

    Of course, you get much the same on "favorites threads." At least there the impetus is love, which is positive, and which implies knowledge and an active and ongoing relationship. The hate threads imply prejudice and rejection, as we've already amply seen, even in this fairly short thread.

    That would be my answer to the OPs subject line question, anyway.

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