Singing in Latin..........

[tittualex]

Dear all,

Our choir used to sing a lot of Latin pieces and recently there arouse a debate that the congregation cant understand Latin and so our singing doesn't fulfill the purpose(its not a problem for singers as we learn the meaning )....... so it was decided by a group that Latin pieces should be translated to English and then sung........ does any of you have your own opinion?

thanks,

Alex.

[Contratrombone64]

At Christ Church St Laurence, our choir quite often sing Anthems or Mass Settings in Latin. In either case, an English translation is provided to the congregation in our pewsheet. Attached is an example of a pewsheet from CCSL.

The example I've attached is not the entire pewsheet, but it does show the information provided on the front page and that provided for High Mass, which includes the lovely Anthem setting to be sung this Sunday at High Mass and its translation.

(I'm responsible for putting this publication together)...

[Soubasse]

Aye, it's a worthwhile compromise and we do exactly the same thing here at the Cathedral. Not just for Latin either but for any other language, as we do sing the occasional French or German motet as well. Whilst we have sung some of the English translations (or transliterations as they're sometimes called!) in the past, the general consensus is that the music works far better using the langauge for which it was originally written, regardless of what the plebs () may think.

Personally I think Latin is too attractive a language to give way to concessions in music, especially early music. Besides, then we wouldn't get to do those silly plays on words and say things in rehearsal like "Okay, we'll sing the Palestrina Secret Service next!"

Matt

[tittualex]

Yes I personally believe that ' the music works far better using the language for which it was originally written '......... and having an English translation on the pew slip is a very good idea........thanks a lot.............

Alex.

[Krummhorn]

Our choir always sings the anthems, cantatas, and other pieces in the language for which they were originally written. What happens sometimes, when translating into English, (for syllabic reasons) some note values need to be changed which tends to alter the "flow" of the anthem.

Sing those anthems in the vernacular - print a pew sheet with the translation ... that's what my church does also.

Curious though, who this "group" is comprised of that decided Latin should be translated.

[methodistgirl]

Since I've joined the choir, there has been only one song sung in Latin.
That was a Christmas song that I'm not even going to try naming.
This language is the predecessor to Spanish, Italian, French, Greek,
and Portuguese. It started back with the Roman Empire if you want to
know some history about it.
judy tooley

[rovikered]

It seems to me as equally inappropriate and bizarre to sing a Latin mass or motet in English (or any vernacular) as it is for Schubert or Brahms Lieder to be sung in anything but the original German. For the uninitiated listeners the simple answer is the provision of a translated text to follow during performance.

[dll927]

After centuries of the Catholic church doing everything in Latin, and composers writing music to fit Latin words, translating during singing could be something of a chore.

The "Sanctus" section of Gounod's Mass for St. Cecilia's Day is fairly regularly performed in Protestant churches. Whether it's done in Latin or in English depends on the sophistication of the choir and the (tenor) soloist.

In principio creavit Deus caelum et terram.

Tu es petra, et super hanc petram edificabo ecclesiam meam. (Around the dome of St. Peter's in Rome.) Thou art the rock, and upon this rock I will build my church.

[tittualex]

dont be shocked if I dare to say that this "GROUP" consists of all non-singers ....... choir governing committee........ pastorate committee........... etc.....etc......etc....... Shocked???????????

Alex.

[wljmrbill]

Being on "OLD CATHOLIC".. Latin maintains the etherial feeling that much music transends to us and in past days many people in all countries understood many latin word/terms/songs. In USA we seem to think everyone should know English ( we are a lazy group in language area for sure}. I have friends from all over the world and most them speak 2-4 languages and us ?????.. The only choice we have is to provide a translation for our people because they sure will not be willing to learn it in most cases....I always felt the church(catholic) lost much when they dropped latin as the prinipal language..... Keep up the good work all and let's keep latin and good music alive in-spite-of them others.... Bill

[Krummhorn]

Alex,

I'm not shocked at all ... even suspected that the "group" would be configured as such.

Often wonder why it is that non-musicians are allowed to make decisions for the those who are educated and trained musicians escapes my scope of understanding.

Maybe a choral demonstration of an anthem first sung in Latin, and then in English, verbatim word for word without re-arranging the text order might convince those who are uneducated in music to leave well enough alone ... .

Latin is such a beautiful language for music ... it sounds so very reverent too, especially in Gregorian chant.

[tittualex]

Alex,

I'm not shocked at all ... even suspected that the "group" would be configured as such.

Often wonder why it is that non-musicians are allowed to make decisions for the those who are educated and trained musicians escapes my scope of understanding.

Maybe a choral demonstration of an anthem first sung in Latin, and then in English, verbatim word for word without re-arranging the text order might convince those who are uneducated in music to leave well enough alone ... .

Latin is such a beautiful language for music ... it sounds so very reverent too, especially in Gregorian chant.

Its a good idea to conduct a Choral Demonstration..........but alas....... to conduct an 'eye opener' like that also we need the permission from this same "group" ...................



Alex.

[Devis Manth]

In my country liturgy songs has been translated not only to our national language, but also to each dialect that parishioners can understand the meaning. True the singer learned the meaning, but you sing those song to share the message to the people.

[greatcyber]

I agree that music should be sung in the language in which it was written. Latin has such a beautiful and lyrical sound to me. It's also very nice to provide a translation so people can understand the meaning of the words. Many times the very essence of the piece is lost by translation, but it also allows for more of the population to understand what some of these beautiful passages are saying.

When I was just a lad and the Mass was said in Latin and my mother would sing and I would play the organ, I developed quite a love for the language.