From thought to finished ??

[corno]

I think you missed my intention here. The idea was to give mr. Sjölund some ways to get about going more into detail with his own music by studying others.
As to whether analysis of others music should be taken into the compositional process or not is a point of debate. Naturally you want to go for something unique (your own style) and besides copying others isn't the most interesting idea, but it sometimes helps in developing an ear for development in music.
I think it's a little naive to assume that good music only comes from total isolation and that any sort of theoretical entry into the field of composition should be handled most carefully - it doesn't really work that way - maybe in the ideal world where earning money and making a living isn't an object of concern. - Sometimes there are really long between "devine" inspiration, so if you're totally without any technical knowledge you'll be hardstruck to find any "exits" unless you stumple upon them by chance and are able to make them work for you.

Naturally one needs to find his/her own way in the (musical) world, but taking notice of how others have done in the past, doesn't subtract from aquiring your own goals. If listening to or looking at some music helps you understand your own music better and helps you develop ideas you wouldn't have thought of before because you either wasn't thinking of doing just that or never thought of it, I wouldn't think twice in commending that. - It's what YOU use the knowledge for that matters, not where the knowledge comes from - and seldomly knowledge comes from nothing at all.

[AM:PM]

Its interesting to hear how other people work. A large part of my songs are concieved in the car on my way to work or in the shower. The ideas are usually a riff or a vocal line. From there a songs plays in my head so I have to get it out. I play out a few notes on my midi-keyboard that correspond to the vocal arrangement or riff in my head. After that I do the drums and layout the bassline followed by piano: I write my first verse and chorus and mould my b-section after the newly penned chorus. The songs organic structure actually decides if am to have a break in the mid or just revert to the A- section. At this point, I can hear it all in my head i.e how the song will start and finish so the intro/outro comes by itself as well. I arrange it and listen to it a hell lot of times. Its important that the song is able to spark my fantasy in the direction of the lyrics - something I just call "feeling it". If I dont feel it, something has to be changed or I have to wait a few days and try again. When I feel the song, I do the vox and brushes up the song some.
I really dont do complex arrangements, so am able to do a whole song withing 5-10 hours. I believe in the KISS (keep it straight and simple) theory. A song for me has to have a chord progression thats not so odd but readily able to access any individuals music centre (if ever the brain has such a centre). just like in those ABBA's songs that always appeal though one is a sworn ABBA feind . All my work is done on a sequencer- am not a skilled instrumentalist/solist so I dont even consider myself a musician in the conventional way!
Hope I make sense

[Jette]

Yes it did make sense and thanks for explaining

Jette

[Gongchime]

I tend to write pieces in groups such as 13 pieces for a cd. So, I'll first write out all the possibilities of form that I want to work with so that there is a variety such as
Intro ABABCAB Outro

or Intro ABCABCABC Outro

or Intro ABCDBDCACABD Outro

After I have the forms established

then I determine section length. If a piece goes ABCABCABC is the A section 8,16,4 or 2 measures long? I'll go through several permutations so that there are a variety.

I'll also write in a variety of starting tempos usually above 100 beats per minute up to 160.

Next I decide where I want the melody to start on the down beat. That's usually only in one section of the pieces. In one piece, the melody will start on the downbeat in the A section, in a different piece the melody will start on the downbeat in the B section.

Next I put in the melodic rhythms for each section and determine where they should end optimally. In the "chorus/downbeat starting section it will end in a consonant sounding rhythmic position depending on the length of the phrase.

I also try to put in different phrase lengths either within a section or between sections.

As far as the actual notes of the melody, sometimes I plug in digital patterns that you might play on an instrument such as 12123234345 or 1234234534564567 or 13243546 or 2321343245435654 etc...

or I might use a number string from mathematics such as Avogadros number or pi etc...

or I'll roll dice or use a random number generator

or I'll work with motifs.

As far as development goes, I seem to prefer the retrograde inversion transposed so as to have a more unique sounding second theme. The mere retrograde or inversion sounds too similar and Bach has done them to death.

[sondance]

Thought I would pick up an older thread as it is such a great topic for music mongers. I will ramble a bit here as I have not settled on a method of composition. I just do not get to do enough and I can be quite an experimenter.

First of all I had to settle on my basic objective - I am a songwriter, not a musician or composer (in a formal sense). Songs for me have begun in many typical ways. I hear a tune bouncing around in my head and grab a guitar or piano and start working with it. Frequently a lyric phrase comes with it, often inspired by a ranging train of thought. The lyric suggests accents and rhythm. Then I work to create verses, chorus, bridges as they seem "right" for the song. Once in awhile there is a brawl between the lyrics and the melodies. Melodies like to create different phrasing than the lyrics may be demanding. In this case it can be helpful to try a meter change and see if the two can get along again. That can be tedious as it is not always fun to change a favorite lyric line for some recalcitrant melody, and changing a melody can take the whole song into complete new direction.

There have been many phrases, riffs, and sometimes entire lyrics that became like stones. They would not yield the progression of thought or melody that would allow me to finish the piece. There have been some that I was able to stitch together to make a more complete piece. Sometimes these had complimentary but independent major and minor melodies and sometimes a shift from minor to major of the same melody with the necessary shift to the chords. There have been times when I was "in search of a lost chord", trying every chord I know to support one note of the melody (usually a "passing" note), in and out of key. Occasionally there is a need to abandon a complete chord and use an octave or single interval to allow the melody and harmonies go where they need to go.

The guitar for me naturally drives a rhythm, generally from the chord and strum patterns. On the piano things open up and I have some pieces that are instrumental only. Frankly this took years of doodling and forcing myself to do things like play octaves and use my left hand. Although I am not looking for fluidity, I strive for the freedom to reach toward sounds I hear that are beyond my skill. If ever I could harness the ability to play what I can imagine, I think that would be wonderful, because it sure sounds good sometimes.

Sometimes I set other words to music. One was an excerpt from Longfellow's "Hiawatha" using a pentatonic structure for solo voice only. Another was a blues based progression on guitar (something like Clapton might play) over which I set the melody for a passage from scripture (Luke 1:68-79, also called the "Benedictus") to which I added a chorus and bridge. This had some interesting chord changes and the bridge really took to the words well. I'm not shy to include some obtuse lyrics or unexpected melodic/chord shift but in the end I look for real meaning to be developed. I do not subscribe to the theory that meanings are all relative. Nor do I look to create a lament that is without hope. Life is tough enough as it is. At the same time I recognize the human communication is a vast and mysterious plane.

I read years ago that Paul Simon would write out his melody first and then the bass line. Between the two the harmony and chord options would be explored to fill out the rest of the song. I do that at times also.

How do you compose?